Rust Spot

[Steve S.]

Went to paint the bottom on Saturday.  (79 degs on the Chesapeake on March 11, couldn't believe it.)   I noticed some rust apparent seeping from the side of my keel about 8 inches down from the bottom of the hull.  Iv'e always had some water in the bilge, mainly due to rain (its always fresh).   I'm thinking tiny leak from the keel bolt.  Should I bee concerned?  Anyone else have this?

[Jeff_McKinney]

Steve,

I'm no pro, but my money is on a loosening of the filler in the joint between the keel and the hull. Have you whacked it against anything besides the mud & sand? That might have done the deed.  'Course, it might have just worked loose a bit.

Either way it sounds like you have some corrosion going on in there. Ideally, (and unfortunately probably the thardest way) is to lower the keel enough so you can get in there & clean it out, re-caulk the joint, then snug it back up, fair it smooth & repaint. After that you should be good to go. Ron Hill has access to a Keel Bolt Tightening Tool. 

Good luck.

[Ron Hill]

Posted this before, but worth posting again.
 
I talked with Gerry Douglas and asked him if they used 5200 to seal the keel to hull - he just smiled.  I asked as some of the caulk mushroomed out from around my washers under the keel bolt nuts.  I had to chisel it out and it is HARD as a rock!

Gerry told me that the procedure to separate the hull from the keel should be:
1. Get 4 men with sledges and wedges
2. Lift the hull so the keel is off of the ground about an inch.
3. Loosen all of the keel bolt nuts about 2-3 inches.
4. Tell the men to start working with the sledges and wedges.
5. You will eventually separate the two.
In his closing statement he said, "you've never heard of a Catalina(fixed keel) that has lost it's keel - have you!!"

So, that gives you an idea of what you'll have to do if you want to separate the two and "fill in the crack"!!  A thought.   

[Jeff_McKinney]

Steve,

Based on Ron's post, it sounds like you are in a world of hurt as far as lowering the keel to clean out the corrosion, etc.

Maybe someone at your yard has a better idea, but I'll bet it won't be easy or cheap. 

[SteveLyle]

Steve,

Sounds like you've got the "Catalina Smile" with 'something' seeping out.  Your question is a good one, should you be concerned?

I think likely not.  Our keel bolts are stainless (not like some early Cat 30's that used galvanized), so whatever it is, it's not likely from the keel bolts, and possibly not rust at all.

Early C34's simply do not have as solid a keel/hull joint as the latter ones.  For some reason Catalina used a wood 'gasket' in the keel/hull joint early on, later going to solid fiberglass.  Water gets to the wood, it sweels, it freezes, the wood can start to rot, maybe even 'leak' brown stuff that looks like rust, it introduces some play or flexibility into the joint, the joint cracks, etc..  Is the keel going to fall off?  No, the bolts are still solid.  The problem is a cosmetic one.  When it gets bad enough (a personal decision), hire the 4 guys, whack the keel off, and replace the wood with fiberglass.

Gerry Douglas asked a good question.  And of course the answer is 'no'.  And if a C34 ever lost a keel, imagine how big the thread on the message board would be!

If it were me, and it was keeping me up at night, I'd take some pictures, send them to Gerry, and give him a call to discuss.

Steve

[Stu Jackson]

Steve

We just "obtained" our "Catalina Smile" for the first time in 18 years.  You're undoubtedly aware of that condition, where the keel starts separating from the hull, about 8 inches below the where the hull curve comes down to meet the keel. 

We simply had the crack cleaned out and filled and faired and repainted during our haulout for a bottom job.  We also had the keel bolts retorqued.

To keep it simple, I recommend gouging it out at the keel-hull joint to see what's happening, then refilling and then torquing the bolts.  Steve's suggestion to check inside is very appropriate.

[Steve S.]

Thank you all for your replies.  To the question did I hit anything?  I'm on the Chesapeake, which is the sailing equivalent of playing bumper-pool with pillows.  I get sucked in to mud all the time.  I think I'll take a fairly conservative approach and dig our some of the seal and refill with 5200.   While the keel bolts on my 1988 are stainless steel, the seepage is rusty.  However, stainless steel can rust (it's called stainless, not rustless), so that doesn't bother me too much.  Also, there are five other solid bolts holding the thing on.   

I like the idea of sending a photo to Catalina, will do and will post.

Cheers,

Steve

[Stu Jackson]

Steve

Good luck.  I'm a fan of the school of "don't-use-5200 on-ANYTHING" (you don't want to ever have to go back to).  I believe 5200 should ONLY be used on hull-to-deck joints.  Call me crazy.

While I'm not a particular expert on epoxies, it would appear that the most appropriate material to be used for the joint is something like West System or the like, and NOT 5200.

While we haven't had many discussions about 5200 on this board, or earlier on the Original Homepage FAQs, I'd bet there'll be a lot of hits if you did a search on "5200."  Try this from one of the hits: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=646.0

Here's a picture of our "Smile" before (December 2005).

BTW, the keel's still hangin' on!!!

[Randy Stolze]

Steve,

     Do you have any keel bolt nuts and washers that appear to be sinking below the level of the bilge? I had the exact condition you describe and found the leaking keel bolt by observing one that was sinking below the bilge by 1/4". I unscrewed that nut and pryed out the washer to find a hole through the fiberglass.

    I mixed up epoxy with lots of filler and filled the hole. Cover the keel bolt with tape to avoid messing up the threads. Reinstall after 24 hours. Torque to spec 107 ft/lbs. Than proced to repair the breakout spot on the side of your keel as you have been advised above.

   Its really a very minor problem that you can easily correct in a few hours.

   Smooth sailing!

   Randy

   

[Stu Jackson]

Steve

Randy makes a good point. Indeed, many of the references from the "5200" search resdults have to do with keel bolts, and, so, may be of interest to you as well.

[Steve S.]

Randy:  Good point.  I had the same thing happen on my old Cat 27.  But in this case, the keel bolt appears normal from the bilge point of view.  However, I think I will unscrew that one anyway and see if there is some sort of cracking.  It can't hurt.

[Ron Hill]

As Steve said the earlier C34s have a wooden keel sole.  I wrote up some notes about this in the Mainsheet.  As I recall Catalina changed there lay up with Hull # 700. 
Hate to say it, but if you are seeing a keel nut washer "sinking" the wooden keel sole could be the problem.