blue circle Alternator

[Paul Bosquet]

Have misplaced phone number for Blue Circle, the source for the 100 amp alternator. Can anyone help
Thank you
Paul

[Stu Jackson]

Paul

888-932-2423

The model # is M-7102-HD

Reference to the Alternator thread and Jim Moe's draft on C34 electrical systems is:

http://www.c34.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1512.0

Since that post, Jim and I have worked on editing the article and the wiring diagram.  It was submitted, but unfortunately not published in Mainsheet.

We're working on getting it in Projects on the main website.

We also apologize that some of the links in the electrical threads in particular are still to infopop.  Seems not all the links did get revised when we shifted over to this server.  Using the search engine, however, should get you around.

If you need any help on electrical material, please let me know and I'll see if I can find the right references for you on this message board.

[Paul Bosquet]

Stu , Thank you for the quick response.
I would like to add that I followed Jim's electrical plan as he had originally prepared it for me. It has worked great with no problems. I strongly recommend it.
Paul

[ken003]

http://www.c34.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1512&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=jim+moe&&start=15


The above link refers to a message (from march 2004) and an electrical schematic attachment.  How do I find this attachment?

Thanks,
Ken

[Paul Bosquet]

Ken
Email me and I'll send you the attachment, I don't think I ever was able to post it
Paul
Paul.bousquet@videotron.ca

[Stu Jackson]

Try this:

[SailDan]

Stu, Paul, et. AL,

I plan to upgrade the electrical system on Weal Sea (1994 C-34) this spring to the 4 6-V Golf Cart Battery system with a 100 amp alternator (external regulator).   From the articles I've read on this message board concerning installation of the Blue Circle-supplied alternator (M-7102-HUD), I get the impression that most people (based on the age of their boats extrapolated from hull #/yr) doing the upgrade have a 25 hp M-30 Universal Engine.  

Question: Weal Sea has a M-35 Universal (30 hp) engine.  Has anyone installed the above alternator on M-35; i.e. will this alternator fit this engine?

Dan

[SailDan]

Oops
Correction --- I guess the early boats had M-25 engines.

[Stu Jackson]

Dan

This is a fun one!

It combines a solution with the problem in the same answer.

The alternators are (exactly/unfortunately) the same.

Shouldn't be a problem, unless someone has specific experience.

[Mark Elkin]

(Arrrrrg....  I just erased everything I'd written.  Starting all over from scratch....)

Folks,
Great thread and discussion.  Especially because I'm doing the same electrical upgrading to Yorkshire Rose right now.

First, I also have to complement Jim Moe on his write-up about the electrical system he designed.  I reached many of the same conclusions but I doubt I'd have the talent or patience to write about it so well.

My electrical system will not be exactly like Mr Moe's though.  Here's what my future system will be:

I purchased an alternator upgrade package from Jack Rabbit Marine.  It consists of a Balmar 712-110 alternator, a Balmar MC-612-H three stage regulator, a battery temperature sensor, and a high amperage fuse block and fuse.  While it was more expensive to buy a new alternator verse a rebuilt unit, I am willing to pay to have the full factory warranty.

The 712-110 can output 110 amps at 6000 RPM.  Perfect for Rose since I reach hull speed around 2000 RPM.  The 3:1 pulley ratios work out great.  While I considered an 80 amp alternator, I went larger both for capacity growth and for lower wear-and-tear.

I also purchased a Balmar DDC-12 Digital Duo Charge.  This charger will service the starter battery.  It is like the Echo Charge but contains advanced features like temperature compensation and permits me to use different battery technologies for the house and starter batteries.  The Duo operates whenever the house batteries are being charged, whether by the alternator or shore powered charger.  So I no longer will need the existing battery combiner.  The shore powered charger will only be connected to the house bank and the Duo will look after my starter battery.

The house battery bank right now consists of three 12V 90AH (Grp 27) gell cell batteries.  Two of these are in the battery box and the third is under the stb settee, just fwd of the fresh water tank.  I'm going to leave them in until one or more finally dies.  When it comes time to replace them, I'm probably going to use 12V 105AH (Grp 31) AGM batteries from Lineline Battery Corp, model GPL-3100.  I considered the Trojan T105's but ultimately selected simplicity over AH capacity.  The AGM's will fit into the existing spaces without modifications and do not require electrolyte nor equalization maintenance.  (But, hey, I can still change my mind when the time comes.)

I agree with Mr Moe's arrangement of the battery switches.  In fact, I made this same change to Yorkshire Rose several years ago.  The only difference is that I put the new Starting Battery Switch under the sink in the head.  This way, it is located right by the raw coolant water seacock.  I don't turn one on without the other.  
See http://home.san.rr.com/heysailor/sailing/projects/battery10.html

Mr Moe suggests reusing some existing #4 wires along with newly added #2 and #6 wires.  I've decided to just use #1 wires between the alternator, starter, and various batteries.  Again, I chose simplicity.  Yeah, it may also be overkill but I think "fatter is better" in this case -- less (I x R) voltage drop.  #1 wire has 15%, 50%, and 100% more ampacity and 23%, 100%, and 323% more copper cross sectional area (thus proportionally less resistance) verses #2, #4, and #6 wire, respectively.  Besides, this same cable will also be used for the windlass I'm installing.

Mr Moe mentions that ABYC now requires fuses at the battery leads.  His diagram shows various fuses.  One fuse that I don't see but plan to add is between each parallelled 12V-battery combination.  In my research, I found several recommendations for inserting a fuse inline with each 12V battery (combo) and the common busbar or distribution post.  The most important reason given was that the fuse will blow if a single battery dies, thus protecting the other batteries in the bank from being loaded or drained by the faulty battery.

In my research, I used several excellent resources.  These include:

"the bible", i.e. Nigel Calder's "Boatowners Mechanical and Electrical Reference"

Constantin von Wentzel's comparison of various marine deep cycle batteries.  
http://www.vonwentzel.net/Battery/index.html.  
Check out his downloadable spreadsheet.  Great tool for calculating electrical loads, comparing battery types and charging system requirements.

Tor Pinney's "The Optimum Electrical Power System
for the Cruising Sailboat" article.
http://www.anchoryachts.com/articles/energy.htm

And various manufacturer's web pages, including:
http://www.lifelinebatteries.com
http://www.balmar.net
http://www.amplepower.com
http://www.jackrabbitmarine.com

[Mark Elkin]

We're working on getting it in Projects on the main website.

Stu,
Bring it on!    

[Stu Jackson]

Sent to Mark today.

Mark's references in his post above are great, and summarize much of what we have been discussing over the past few years about our electrical systems.  

Look for Jim's article on Projects soon.  Also, Al Watson posted a simplified wiring diagram on the Projects page a few years ago.

Happy Electrons to you all  

[Mark Elkin]

Tech Guru's,

I posed this question to Balmar.  They essentially replied "do as you're told" and didn't provide any explanation.

My question relates to the placement and wiring of my new Duo-Charge.  The installation instructions say to locate it within 2 feet of the house bank.  To do that would require that I run another set of battery cables between the house bank and the engine compartment.  The existing cables will send the alternator output directly to the house bank and the second cable will send the Duo-Charge output back to the starter battery.  The starter battery is only about 2 ft away from the alternator, but the house bank is 15-20 feet away electrically.

The house bank will be connected to the alternator output via the existing cables.  As I see it, the primary difference between Balmar's recommended wiring and connecting the Duo-Charge to the alternator output is the length of battery cable between the house bank and the Duo-Charge.  The advantages (to me) for using the latter method is that (1) only one set of battery cables run from the engine compartment to the house bank and (2) the Duo-Charge stays near the starter battery which makes wiring it into the system much easier and also keeps the cables (charging and temperature sensor) short and efficient.

Is there a technical or performance reason why I cannot connect the Duo-Charge to alternator output, i.e. any reason why the Duo-Charge must be physically near the house bank as opposed to the starter battery?

So, can any of our members answer the "why" questions with more intelligence than Balmar's "because we said so!"

[Mark Elkin]

Where did you (any of you) place your new regulator(s)?  On the side wall of the engine compartment?  Under the sink in the head? In the aft cabin?  Elsewhere?

Obviously, the wiring harness may have constrained your choices.  

What motivated your choice of location?  Does your regulator have user adjustable modes and controls?  Does it have visible or audible warning indicators?  If either, did your choice provide good access to the regulator's human interface or hamper it?

Would you change your mind about the current location if you knew then (when it was installed) what you know now?

[Ray & Sandy Erps]

I mounted my Balmar ARS-4 regulator on the backside of the door under the bathroom sink.  If I were to do it over again, I would do the same thing.  It's easy to get to and readily observable to see the charging status.  I don't have to worry about the fuel filter dripping on it either.  It's mounted close to the hinge side, so when the door opens and closes there is little movement to the wiring harness.  The thickness of the door teak was enough to conceal the wood screws that fasten it.

I considered inside the engine compartment but rejected that idea because it's harder to get to and if the engine every sprung a coolant leak I didn't want to get coolant on the pretty blue paint or wiring on the regulator.

The blue circle alternator and external regulator was one of the best  and easiest improvements I did to the boat.  My batteries have never been in such good shape.  When my battery bank eventually goes "tom-union" I'm going to switch to golf cart batteries for the house bank and I already have a separate starting battery.