Quickie Winterizing

[reedbr]

I'm looking to speed up the winterizing process.  I seems to me that if I add Y-valves or T-valves inline on the engine, A/C, and head through-hulls I could suck the antifreeze into the system without wrestling those hoses on and off.  I couldn't find anything like this in the search.  Has anybody tried it?  Any recommendations on valves?

[Ron Hill]

Brian : I've known a number of people that have kept their boats in the water year around and put a "Y" valve in the raw water intake hose.  When a nice day came along they'd go sailing in winter.  When they came back to the dock they'd open the raw water "Y", suck in antifreeze and be protected (rewinterized) until the next nice day!!  I'm sure that you could do the same to any system.

You're just going to have to find a "Y" valve that fits the size line that you're using.  I used a regular garden hose "Y" between my sea water foot pump and my 1/2" fresh water line.  I did that so when we went "south" I could pump fresh water if the electric pressure pump ever failed.  It never did, but I still have that capability.  

[Roc]

Brian,
My raw water engine hose isn't that hard to get off the seacock barb.  What I've done is rig a piece of hose with a barb that has been sanded down so it won't bite into the engine hose when connected.  This piece is placed onto the end of the engine hose to lengthen it so it makes it easier to place it into a bucket filled with antifreeze.  Before I pump the antifreeze through, I fill the bucket with fresh water and run the engine for awhile.  My A/C is mounted under the head sink.  I have a tee in the sink drain and the A/C inlet hose.  For winterization, I bridge the two hoses at the tee and pour antifreeze in the head sink while the A/C is running.  I also purge the system with fresh water before doing the antifreeze.  For my hot water heater, I connected it in such a way that I can bypass it easy by using fittings that are mated by threads, instead of wrestling the hose off a barb every time.  Switch your connection with male/female fittings.  Now instead of pulling the hose off a barb, you just loosen the clamps on the barb end and unscrew the fittings.

Let me know if you want more specific explanations.

Roc-

[reedbr]

Roc-

I like your idea on the extension hose.  Maybe even get one with threaded adapters that I could screw on and off for different size hoses so I had one universal extension.

However, for the engine raw water intake, I really like the idea of a second valve on a T like Ron suggested.  I see Forespar has a Marelon Y-valve, but it is listed as "not for use under the waterline".  That seems strange.  Any standard bronze or plastic T would also work I assume too, but for under the waterline I want a quality piece.

Does anybody have an idea of the hose size on a MK II seawater intake before the strainer?  How about the head seawater hose?  

Thanks for the suggestions.

[Vic Suben]

On my lasst two Catalinas I installed a coolant system flush kit that I bought at an auto parts store.  This kit is basically a "T" fitting with barbs on the run and a port with threads for a garden hose on the "T".  I kept the port covered with the cap that came with the kit until it was time to winterize.  Then I closed the seacock, removed the cap, and threaded a short piece of garden hose onto the port.  With the other end of the hose inserted in a bucket with antifreeze, I would start the engine & the antifreeze would be sucked up.

It was very quick & easy, and I didn't have to wrestle the hoses off the thru-hull fittings.

Hope this helps.

Vic
Surprise

[Ray & Sandy Erps]

There was some extensive discussion in the C-30 portion of MainSheet concerning propylene glycol's tendency to tear up neoprene impellers when winterizing the engine.  We had a heavy freeze here last year and I got by with just draining the engine of raw water by pulling the intake hose and openning up the heat exchanger and drainging the muffler.  I've been doing that for over ten years and getting away with it but this discussion is causing me to re-evaluate what I've been doing.  Has anyone suffered freeze damage after draining the water intake and heat exchanger and muffler?

[Ted Pounds]

Ray,

Define "heavy freeze".  Here in the Midwest a heavy freeze is down around 0 F.  I'd expect if you only got a few degrees below 32 F the expansion of any residual water wouldn't do any damage.  Besides draining the muffler and heat exchanger I'd suggest taking off the raw water pump cover and making sure that's drained too.  That's what I do after running anti-freeze through the system (Ron will appreciate a "belt and suspenders" move like that   ).

I also took note of that C30 item on impellers and propylene glycol.  I always take my impeller off in the winter.  That's how I came to discover that residual water remains in the pump.  Between that and changing the impeller at least every other year I guess that's why I've never had a problem with them.  That also brings up the excellent point that the other Catalina fleets, especially the C30 and C36 are excellent sources of info about our boats.

[Ray & Sandy Erps]

Hello Ted,

20 degrees F is considered pretty darn cold around here with occasional dips into the teens.  We had the water in the marina freeze over last year, although there is quite a bit of fresh water from a local river that floats on top of the salt water.

I remember someone writing that they take their impeller out and leave it on top of the engine each winter and thought that was good advice.  We still have about another month of boating weather here before things start getting cold enough for me to start worrying about freezing.  I think I'll take your advice and take the extra step of pulling the impeller.

[Jack Hutteball]

Ray,
I just noticed you are in Laconner Wa.  We keep our boat in Skyline Marina in Anacortes.  I have never worried much about winterizing as the water we sit in is usually about 43-45 degrees.  I usually run the water out of the freshwater system but that may or may not empty the hot water tank.  I also keep an electric heater with the thermostat set at 38 degrees pointed at the engine compartment with the door open so it will blow warm air in there if the temperature drops.  I have never thought that the heat exchanger or the muffler water could get cold enough to freeze with this setup.  I also keep a couple of dehumidifier fans that put out a small amount of heat going continuously.  So far I have had no troubles, but maybe I am just lucky.

Have you ever had problems in your location?

[Ray & Sandy Erps]

Hi Jack,

That makes four of us on this board that have our boats near Anacortes.  Sounds like a pretty good excuse for a raft-up this spring.  I prepped for the cold last winter same as you in addition to draining the raw water in the engine.  I ran a de-humidifier, but no heater.  One day I came down to check on the boat and found a 3 inch ice cube coming out of the galley faucet that popped the little screen out.  That was my only freeze damage.
This winter, I think I'll be a little more thorough draining stuff, because you can't always depend on the power staying on in La Conner when the weather gets nasty.  I've been draining the engine instead of putting in antifreeze because we use the boat year round, so I was wondering if I'm just rolling dice here or pretty safe.

[captran]

Well, guys, now you add  to my worry and to do list.  We kept our Newport 30 with the Universal 25hp at Skyline dry docked for 7 winters.  We emptied the water tanks as best we could and put about 5 gallons of pink RV antifreeze in the water tank and pressurized the system.  I never considered draining the muffler or even the heat exchanger, and we were ready to come over this weekend and do the same to Voyager (roads permitting).   Seems like the heat exchanger would be easy but how do you drain the muffler and refill in the spring?  Since the boat is up, if I open the face plate on the impeller that will release any water in the hose and I could empty the seawater strainer for good measure.  But is the muffler really a concern?  Also, the owners manual suggests when storing off season to fill the transmission fluid level to keep the seal from drying out.  We never did that with the same Hurth trans. on the Newport, , but for 2 years we have done so with the Catalina.

[Jack Hutteball]

I have never drained anything in the engine or added antifreeze to the saltwater side of the cooling system.   I know salt water can freeze but at a lower temperature so that is why I have not been too concerned.  We use the boat on many winter weekends, enjoying "our cabin on the water" even if we don't leave the dock.  Keeping the engine ready to go allows me to run it for few minutes every time we are there to keep oil circulated which I understand is good for the seals throughout the engine and transmission.

I have a deep appreciation for all of the owners who have to put their boat on the hard every year and really take care of all these things.

Seems appropriate we all get together when we get sailing in the spring.

[Ron Hill]

When the temperature gets and stays below freezing, I recommend that you run some polypropylene thru your engine.  It's cheap ($3 or $5/gal) compared to freeze damage.  It's your boat and you have to decide.

I like Ted's belt and suspenders.  When I winterize (on the hard) I drain the heat exchanger, because I pull out the old zinc and replace it in the fall.  I'm going to replace it in the spring so why not in the fall and let everything(antifreeze/water) drain out.  I also take the impeller out of the pump and spray it with silicon. No sense in leaving it all scrunched up for the winter.  At the same time I take off the drive belt.  Why have it tensioned all winter and I turn it around in the spring ( to get even wear from slight misalignment of the pulleys).  
A few thoughts.

[Randy and Mary Davison]

Ray, Jack, and Randy:

I guess Gorbash must be the fourth boat that was mentioned.  We've been at Anacortes Marina for 10 years or so, first in a C27 and then the C34.  We've had sailboats in salt water in the Seattle area for 31 years.  

In the early years I put antifreeze in the fresh water system but left the engine as is for the winter.  For the past 10 years, we've done no winterizing at all except to leave two dehumidifier heaters on and a West marine electric heater set for 36 degrees or so.  We've never had any freeze damage at all in spite of having fresh water from slow running dock faucests freeze over around the boat.  I've come to believe that sitting in 45 degree moving salt water keeps things from getting too cold.

As was mentioned by someone else, we use the boat all winter, either to go on weekend trips or to use as a winter cabin.   This provides an excuse to fire up the diesel heater and engine to bake everything out.  When temperatures are in the teens for two or three days in a row, I do head up to the boat to check on the heaters and warm up the engine and boat.  I have a propane heater to use as backup should the electricity fail.

Just a note on weather...this year is a mild el Nino year so we should see warmer and drier weather than usual.  It's the neutral years that bring strong cold snaps.   As yo probably know, the one weather pattern to watch for is the Fraser outflow that freezes Anacortes but leaves Seattle fairly warm.

Randy, you have a different set of issues on the hard.  I'd certainly keep a safe electric heater on board set above freezing and have a plan to have someone local (I'd be willing) check things out if the passes become impassable from Spokane.

[Ron Hill]

Guys : I wouldn't let anything plugged in while on the hard & unattended.  Have you all forgotten the C34 that burned up - on the hard and plugged in -  during the Holidays last year??