re: batteries and Ted, Paul and Brian's response

[charlesson]

Thanks again for the responses. I will try to answer the questions you raised.

My c34 is a 1988. I'm on a can so I haven't my AC charger for at least 11/2 months. The only source of charge is the alternator when the engine is running.

I do "energize" my glow plugs for 20 -30 sec's b4 starting as I thought this was sop. I noticed today that when I energize the plugs that the amp meter on the cockpit panel dips to the left significantly. Normal?

I was at the boat today with a better result. Although my voltage readings are the same as in the original post, the cranking rpm's were faster and the engine did start readily with all lights and accessories on and with the sink pump pumping fresh water.

I cleaned up all my connections and ran the engine above idle for a bit. In that I get a higher voltage reading with the engine operating than not, doesn't this prove that I am getting at least some charge from my alternator?

I added distilled water today with one cell in each battery exhibiting electrolyte level about an inch below the mark. Could this be the culprit? Have I permanently loss max. output from that cell?

I start and operate the boat with the switch in the "all" position.

The voltage with the engine running is about 12.5 volts.

I don'thave the size and make of the batteries handy but nxt time on the boat I'll note.

Thanks again,

Ken Heyman
1988 c34
"Wholesailor"
Chicago, Ill

[Ted Pounds]

Ken

12.5 volts is not enough to adequately charge your batteries.  They should be above that level if they're fully charged.  That your batteries are reamaing in a discharged state for a long period of time will shorten their lives.  I suspect you have the old wiring harness and that is why the output to your batteries is so low.  It should be on the order of 13.5 to 14 volts.  Since you keep the boat on a can I would reccomend the wiring harness upgrade to shorten the run from the  alternator (and lessen the voltage drop), and getting a smart regulator.  Beyond that you might also consider a new, more powerful alternator.

Until you make those changes, the best thing you can is get plugged in for at least a little while and get a full charge on your batteries.

10 secs or more is what I give my glow plugs, so 20 - 30 is fine.  Since you have the amp meter you must have the old harness.  There is a significant amp draw from the plugs.  

Ted

[RON S.]

LET ME TELL YOU WHAT I DID THAT WORKS LIKE A CHAMP. MY BOAT IS IN SAN DIEGO AND WE LIVE IN PHOENIX, AZ. WE CAN ONLY GO TO THE BOAT ABOUT EVERY 4 OR 5 WEEKS. I WAS CONSTANTLY HAVING TO CHARGE THE BATTERIES WHEN WE WOULD ARRIVE TO START THE ENGINE. BIG PAIN IN THE ---. ONE OF MY CLIENTS IS A R V DEALER. HE SAID THIS WILL TAKE CARE OF THE PROBLEM AND HANDED ME A VERY INEXPENSIVE SOLAR CHARGER THAT PUTS OUT 5 WATTS. I NOW  BUNJI CORD IT TO THE HATCH BEHIND THE MAST RUN THE WIRE THROUGH THE HATCH CONNECT IT TO THE # 1 BATTERY PUT THE CONTROL SWITCH ON ALL AND GO BACK TO PHOENIX. WHEN WE RETURN THE BATTERIES ARE FULLY CHARGED AND READY TO GO. I HAVE HAD EXCELLENT RESULTS FROM THIS SET UP. THE NAME OF THE CHARGER IS BATTERY SAVER PRO5W BY ICP. WORKS FOR ME. HOPE THIS HELPS

[Stu Jackson]

REVISED urlS BY SHORTENTING THEM TO AVOID WORD WRAP  - You'll have to cut and paste the links.

Ken

You have a not unusual issue.

The original "power" systems on our boats were woeful.

You have the basic setup with 2 batteries, no shorepower source, and the stock alternator.

It'll be danged hard to get any sufficient charge in your batteries.

By asking the question, it appears that additional information you can avail yourself of is Calder's Boatowner's Manual, and get a good handle on the basics of electrical systems.

Sources on this message board have been numerous in recent months, about electrical systems.

This has been discussed many times on this forum, and one place to start is here:



<A HREF="http://c34.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&
f=829605811&m=654602911&r=8546
02911#854602911" TARGET=_blank>http://c34.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=
329609511&f=829605811&m=
654602911&r=854602911#854602911[/URL]</A>

another is:



[URL=http://c34.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=search&s=329609511&result_detail=
3&x_as=&x_from_srchf=Y&reqWords=
&exactPhrase=C34+Electrical+System
&optWords=&notWords=&f=all
&afterDate=&beforeDate=
&authorName=&sortType=&exp_ptyp=
Y&ptyp_poll=Y&ptyp_album=
Y&ptyp_msg=Y&x_disable_post_details=
N&groupType=1&search=Search]http://c34.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=search&s=329609511&result_detail=
3&x_as=&x_from_srchf=Y&reqWords=
&exactPhrase=C34+Electrical+System
&optWords=&notWords=&f=all&
afterDate=&beforeDate=&authorName=
&sortType=&exp_ptyp=Y&ptyp_poll=
Y&ptyp_album=Y&ptyp_msg=
Y&x_disable_post_details=
N&groupType=1&search=Search[/URL][/URL]

Another good discussion with a basic upgrade idea for you boat is:

http://c34.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=
936606927&r=241100145#241100145

The solar panel idea is great, we have one on our boat and never plug in even though we're at a dock.  Also, if you dhave a shorepower charger, and it's not a piece of junk, find a way to tie up to a dock and get a full charge on a reasonably regular basis, so you don't kill your recently new batteries.

There are plenty of discussions you can also find with the FIND feature here, under alternators, batteries (a very good resource for you) and other electrically related issues.


Stu

[Stu Jackson]

I changed the links to fit, need to cut & paste to get there.

Stu

[reedbr]

I think Ted has the right thought.  12.5 volts with the engine running is not enough.  Is that above idle?  If not, make sure this is the voltage with the engine running about 1000 RPM.  If you still have 12.5 volts, I think there is a problem with the charging system.  I would identify that problem first before going the full upgrade route. The alternator can be removed and taken to an auto parts shop for testing.  External regulators are usually cheap enough to just replace, but can be tested with some jumpering of the leads.  Internal regulators (internal to the alternator housing) might be able to be tested along with the alternator.  Maybe somebody can help me here on what a stock C34 MkI regulator setup is.

Once the system is working properly per factory specs, you can determine if additional upgrades are necessary.  Being on a mooring certainly puts some additional requirements on your list that others don't have to deal with.

Stu- The wide format to your post is due the the long URL which didn't wrap.  The thread auto-adjusts to the longest item.  It's hard to avoid unless you shorten the title of the URL when you post it.

[Stu Jackson]

Brian

1.  Sorry about the long URL, it just "came that way!"

2.  You wrote: "Maybe somebody can help me here on what a stock C34 MkI regulator setup is."

The references above are good starting places.  Maybe I just don't understand your question.  

The stock is a 55 amp Motorola alternator with an internal (i.e., relatively useless for good charging) regulator.

3.  The lack of word wrap is not so bad if you use the printer friendly version (see the TOOLS tab)

Stu

[Mike and Theresa Vaccaro]

From the FYI department:  Don Casey has a good article on the Sailnet website about the difference between internal and external regulators.  Don't want to start a debate, and I'll let the math and physics stand on their own merits...

Here's a link to the article:

http://www.sailnet.com/collections/articles/index.cfm?articleid=caseyd0081

Cheers,

Mike

[Stu Jackson]

Mike

Great reference.  Thanks.

In addition, a recent post, called "batteries" includes a long dissertation contributed by Paul from Jim Moe about electrical systems, including a description of the downside of automotive charging regimens, which is all an internal regulator (i.e., stock) will do.  It's a long thread, this item is also long, about halfway down the thread.

You can find it at:  

http://c34.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=936606927

(Hope this one wraps!)

Stu