Batteries

[Eliosso]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tony B 1989 #903 Helen C:
Hi Paul,

Which alternator and regulator?  Where did you get them?

Thanks,


Tony Benoit
Helen C
#903 '89<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tony,
the alternator I will be installing is the BALMARmc612H selling for  $250.00.
The alternator is a rebuild from Blue Circle. They are a little over $100.00 for a 95amps
Another member is helping me and has done the work already a few times. I beleive he is an electric engener.
Will be happy to share the info I am getting from him. It is kind of long  so give me your email address and will forward the info to you or anybody else for that matter
Paul

[Stu Jackson]

ALTERNATORS

Paul

Even if it is long, why not just post it here?  Saves you time sending it to multiple people, plus we all get to read it.

Stu

[Eliosso]

Stu, will forward all the info I am getting when I have it all so to minimize going back and forth
Paul

[Eliosso]

James E. Moe answered my request for info on upgrading my system on my new C34,1989
Thanks James

Catalina 34 DC Power System Upgrade

This long post has been deleted and the ENTIRE article by Jim can be found at: http://www.c34.org/projects/projects-electrical-system-upgrade-2.html

[Eliosso]

Attached is the schematic for the upgrade
 again I wish to thank James E. Moe for the time he took . Thank you very much
Paul

[mogline]

Paul - thanks for the excellant post.  I am looking for insight from any of the electrical gurus.  We own hull 86, a 1986 with the usual electrical loads (including refrigeration).  Normal use is 1 or 2 week long cruises  plus a number of 2-3 day weekend outings each season.  When not in use Shadow is berthed and on shore power.  Current setup is three 27s in the box, with the house bank of 2 wired thru a separate A-B switch under the dinette.  A stock 55A alternator is regulated by an AutoMac.  This means we reserve one 27 as the starting battery.  Main switch must be in "both" to crank the engine.  I intend to mount a dedicated starting battery aft of the engine and wire generally as shown by Paul.  Two questions.  The 27s are only 2 years old and in very good shape.  Any reason I cannot wire in parallel to create a 300+ hour house bank?  Plan to install 6 volts for the house bank when the 27s go, but hate to do so now when they work fine. We have a two bank C Charger (Charles Electric).  Can one output go to the house bank, and the other the starting battery to recharge when on shore power?  I will be using an echo charge from the alternator lead.

[Jim Price]

Paul, that was one of the best, if not the best, write-up I have seen on the board.  I actually understood all if it !!  :eek:  I think you should receive an award for this effort.  Also, I hope the write-up and diagram will be in the Mainsheet.  This is absolutely top quality info!!!

[Eliosso]

Gentlemen,
I would like to make one thing clear.I am not the author of this fabulous upgrade ''how to''. As I mentioned on top of my post , James e. Moe ;), electric engeener,also a member of our group, is the one who put this together after I asked for help in reconfiguring my electric set up in new boat.
I was , as you are , overwelmed by his response, time and effort that he put in to it and I am very gratefull. He even rewrote it after he found an error and redid all the schematic WOW
Seing what I had in my hands , and knowing that I was not the only one in this situation , I could not keep this valuable info all to myself.
Again, KUDOS to James Moe
 Paul

[rbeecham]

Great schematic Jim, what software did you use to make it.  I have a hand drawn one of my setup and would like to make a computer version.

[Stu Jackson]

C34 Electrical Systems

I noted Mike's post hasn't been answered yet, so here goes:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike Ogline, #86, 1986, "Shadow":
Paul - hull 86, a 1986 Current setup is three 27s in the box, with the house bank of 2 wired thru a separate A-B switch under the dinette.  A stock 55A alternator is regulated by an AutoMac.  This means we reserve one 27 as the starting battery.  Main switch must be in "both" to crank the engine.  I intend to mount a dedicated starting battery aft of the engine and wire generally as shown by Paul.  Two questions.  The 27s are only 2 years old and in very good shape.  Any reason I cannot wire in parallel to create a 300+ hour house bank?  We have a two bank C Charger (Charles Electric).  Can one output go to the house bank, and the other the starting battery to recharge when on shore power?  I will be using an echo charge from the alternator lead. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mike

1.  Yes, that's a good idea.  See: http://c34.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=654602911&r=964602911#964602911 which is Kyle Ewing's original post on his system ideas, and previously "recommended reading."  Just wire your house batteries into one bank, and to your 1-2-B switch and your start battery to the other post of the switch.  We had our AutoMac output originally to the middle post of the switch with an isolator which I ripped out immediately when I installed our combiner.  The AutoMac output (alternator output) goes to the house bank via the switch (not wired directly, physically, but functionally the same).

2.  I personally think it's not really necessary to move your starting battery.  Why bother, it's hot back there.  I know this disagrees with some other's ideas.  I find the alternatives are: a) if it's working now with the existing wires, what's the problem and why move it? - as Ron says, just make sure the connections are very good - and; b) it's easier running heavier wiring than moving the battery.

3.  Your Charles charger is KILLING your batteries.  The $$ you spend moving your start battery would be better spent on buying s Statpower StrueCharge charger.  SEE: "C34 Electrical Systems," and it's reference to the find on chargers, written quite a while ago.  http://c34.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=929603044&r=929603044#929603044

4.  Good idea to use the echo charge from your alternator.  We, too, have an AutoMac, and until it gives out and we need a larger alternator with external regulation (i.e., the alternator dies), we'll keep using the AutoMac as if it was our "manually controlled external "automatic" :) regulator!"  Don't worry about a dual output shorepower charger AND the echo charge.  When would you have both the alternator AND the shorepower charger on at the same time???? (Somebody did once, and wondered why his tach wasn't working, but that's another story...)  

ALTERNATIVELY, AND PROBABLY BETTER though, Mike, why not employ the same logic with the shorepower and the echo charger as you do with the alternator?  Just hook only one shorepower charger output to a positive distribution post to your HOUSE bank, and the echo charger keeps doing its things for ANY incoming charging source, i.e., charger, alternator, solar, etc.  Much easier to wire and to understand.  Also covered in earlier referenced posts.  Just because the charger has two or more outputs doesn't mean you have to use them. Jim's wiring diagram shows an echo charger with dual outputs from the shorepower charger to each bank.  You could just as well wire one output of the charger to the same house bank post as the alternator output and the echo charge, as shown, will "do" the starting bank.  Follow the wires, you'll see what I mean.

Jim Moe's article and his wiring diagram are absolutely great.  All I'm saying is that there are variations on the theme.

Your plan is a good idea, Mike.  Any other questions, please let us know.  You may want to start another post if you have any other questions.

Best regards,

Stu

[Gary Wilson]

Stu -

I like your idea of using the shorepower charger for the house bank only, and Echo Charge for the start battery.

Do you know if the Truecharge 20 will direct a full 20 amps through that single hook-up?  I don't own one (yet) and wondered if the 20 amps is divided among the 3 battery outputs.

 - Gary

[tandm]

From the TruCharge manual:
"Total current delivered to the batteries will be either 20 or 40 amperes maximum, depending on the model, divided among the batteries according to there state of discharge."

From the charging current perspective I would assume that having two banks connected directly or one bank connected directly and the other connected through an Echo charge would not make a significant difference. You still have to put that same amount of water into the bucket.

I am curious about what effect the Echo charger has on the charging profile of the TrueCharge. I wonder if the one banks or two bank approached is better, or if it doesn't make any difference.   Any electrical engineers out there?

[Stu Jackson]

Te

It doesn't make any difference to the charger.  It puts out what it can.

All the echo charger does is separate the charge.

Why bother having two shorepower outlets when only one will suffice?

Using the echo charger does all the work for you.

Stu

[Stu Jackson]

Ray,

I've started a new thread, go to:

http://c34.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=728104404&r=728104404#728104404

Stu

2007 - old infopop links don't work

[James Moe]

If anyone is interested, I stopped by at Blue Circle Auto Electric last week on my way up to the boat on Lake Superior.  They are located in Grand View WI.  A few years ago I commissioned them to make me up a 100 Amp alternator based on a Delco industrial engine unit which has a plug-in external regulator.  I've had them on two Catalinas now for a few years without any problems and put them on a few other boats as well.

I arranged for an ordering reference: M-7102-HD for the unit.  Price is $120.00 plus S&H which is their OEM-Distributor price.  I had them use a 2.5 mm smaller fan which will clear the Universal adjustment bracket and it just fits in the space Catalina provided so it's plug and play.  The Balmar or Xantrex regulators plug right in.  Note that this is an industrial engine alternator so is not rated for use with a marine gasoline engine but is fine for a diesel.

Only difference I can determine in operation between this and a Balmar is that the output current is not quite as high at low engine RPM.  I don't consider that to be a disadavantage since a diesel gums up piston rings big time at low loads and low RPM.  Thus you should keep RPM up to 2300 - 2400 when charging anyway.  Incidentally, the tach doesn't need recalibration since the Delco had same number of poles as the stock Motorola unit.