Elliptical rudder conflict ???

[Member, Dave Davis]

Congratulations on your two first place awards. ITS FUN TO WIN...As far as the new elliptical rudder, I would be interested to know how you like it and what difference you feel when you tack.
Also, when you get it back, check the clearance when you sweep the rudder a full turn in both directions. I mention this because I had a interference fit between the rudder and the section that exited the hull/skeg. I had to grind off about 1/4 inch to clear the skeg. It was like they put too much glass around the post where it first exits the hull. Grinding off the glass presented another problem. The grinding broke through the glass to the inside of the skeg and I had to fill the skeg so that water could not enter.
I told the factory about this problem and I hope they fix it so you will not have to go thru the same problem. Good lick and let us know how you come out.

[Ted Pounds]

Dave

Where did you have to grind off fiberglass?  Was it in that curved indentation at the end of the skeg?  Did you have to have the rudder off to do it?  I ask because if I have to take the rudder on and off to check the fit the raising and lowering of the boat by the yard could get expensive.  Do you think it's possible to check the fit by measuring before I put it on?  Or hopefully the factory was able to fix the problem.  Thanks.

Ted

[dave davis -707-1988-San]

I had to remove the glass in the curved indentation at the end of the skeg. It was ground out when the boat was on the hard. It needed grinding only on one side. When you moved the rudder in one direction there was interference. But if you moved the rudder in the other direction, it left enough clearance so the you could grind away at the glass without removing the rudder. I hope that you do not need any of this info if the factory did their job. Good Luck...

[dave davis -707-1988-San]

I had to grind only on one side. So, if you push the rudder to the other side, it left enough room to do the grinding without pulling the rudder. Good Luck

[captran]

grinding off glass?  Are you talking about the skeg area?  I had a grounding incident last year which must have slightly bent the rudder post, just enough so the rudder wouldn't turn.  I was able to file down about 1/8 of an inch of that last three inched of skeg to allow for it to swing freely.  When we returned to the marina I sanded the skeg smooth and put some west system epoxy over it.  I put about 200+ miles on the boat getting it back and it seemed to steer just fine, but I wonder if I should just be replacing the entire rudder.  Any thoughts?  How much is a new rudder for a 1997 model?  I guess when I called it was the busy season and gave up, but called a local broker who said it was about $1500., but from what I read it sounds like a good deal more than that.  While on the hard I tried to see if there was any loseness in the rudder and it felt as solid as before.  Hmmmm.

[Ted Pounds]

Randy,

I would suggest you talk to a surveyor.  He/she should be able to give you a good answer.  I would think that a slight bend like that, which you don't notice in steering,  shouldn't be a problem.  But an answer from a pro should give you peace of mind.  Just my thoughts...  As I recall a new rudder was about $1300 plus shipping. vs. about $700 for the re-build.  (probaly not possible to re-build one with a bent shaft, but I don't know).

Dave,
Thanks for the info.  Hopefully I won't have a problem, but good to know I can fix it at my leisure after the rudder is on, if there is a problem.

Ted

[dave davis -707-1988-San]

Randy, as long as you do not have any interference between your rudder post and the skeg when you swing the rudder in both the directions, I see no reason to worry about getting a new rudder. If you feel you need one, you'll have to get the $ from the factory. I did not buy a new rudder, I just bought a recasting on top of my old rudder post.Good Luck, Dave

[captran]

Thank you for your input.  That was my thought, it terms of it appreared to be solid and straight when looking at the rudder for and aft with the boat out of the water.  I thought I would use the boat this summer and double check everything, but from my initial exam it appeared solid, but I am sure it bent ever so slightly.  In sanding the area of the skeg it looked OK from that angle, and several coats of West finished it nicely.  If I have to replace the rudder I will do it, but my boat yard won't let you do any work yourself and is known for seriously underestimating labor charges.  If I knew it was a fixed price for rudder and labor I probably wouldnt hesitate to amke it like new, but the real test will be to watch carefully how she behaves during this summers Abacos cruise.  I might ask around on the surveyor idea too if I could find one in the Ft Pierce area that would be available.

[Ted Pounds]

Well I had my rudder put on today.  And, sure enough, I had to grind off some of the skeg on the lower starboard side.  The port side was fine.  I thought it was going to go OK because I carefully measured the rudder and the top of the area where it exits the hull.  All semed well, but I didn't notice that the starboard edge did not go straight down.  It angled aft slightly and that's the area I had to grind down. I was also able to do the work with the rudder on as it fit fine on the port side.  I gound into only one small void which I filled with epoxy and chopped glass. A quick coat of WEST epoxy and Molly Rose hit the water only about 6 hours late.  

Dave, did you have to grind the starboard side also?  I seems to me the problem stems from the original Mk I hull mold rather than the Mk II rudder mold.  The new rudder seems perfectly symetrical and it's the hull that's off.  It'll be a few weeks before I sail it.  I'll let you know then how the new rudder performs.

Ted

[dave davis]

Ted, you and I had a similar problem. I did all the grinding on the skeg and no grinding on the rudder. I took off the glass on the starboard side only. In doing so, I had to grind enough to clear and that put a hole in te skeg. To fix the hole, I had to drill a new hole up higher on te sleg and then I filled the skeg with glass and epoxy
Good Luck, Dave

[Ted Pounds]

Sounds like they didn't have the mold quite squared up in that one spot.  I guess the older rudders were a bit thinner so it wasn't a problem.  I would assume that anyone with an original style Mk I who gets a new or recast rudder will have to grind down that part of the skeg.

Ted