RADAR INSTALLATION

[shekinahsailor]

I haven't found these answers through search so be patient.  The boat show season nailed me for a Raymarine RL70RC and now the fun begins. I'll be installing in the cockpit and intend to use the RADAR ON THE LEVEL aft split stay gimballed arrangement for the scanner.  A few questions. 1) the install manual recommends I should run virgin power to the receiver but why not take my existing helm instrument power(for AP/SPEED/DEPTH (which is adequate) to a bus bar instead of running new lines through a very tight pedestal guard? 2) any comments on installing the display at the helm?  NavPod has the cleanest attachment but I'd like to find something that can swival around for those times when the admiral doubts my judgement.  3) the display install manual makes a big deal out of an additional electronic compass - do I need it?  Finally, any thoughts on the additional trouble of tying in other data through SEATALK? Any help would be appreciated to keep this from being a BIG project.  Thanks.

[John Langford]

Hi John,
I am just about to do what you are doing - putting a Raymarine radar on a 1999 Mark II - so I appreciate your questions.

Do you already have evidence that the Radar on the Level system will set up properly on your boat? I am interested in that approach but also want to put on a backstay adjuster.

Is the RL70RC a colour screen? I had the basic RL 70 on my Catalina 320 and installed the screen over the nav table so I am not sure what the two tone screen would be like in the cockpit.

Let's keep in touch as we go forward. My boat show buying opportunity isn't until early February.

Cheers,
John

[Bruce Hoch "Vanishing Poi]

About Radar on the Level.  I installed my Raydome on this mount, and while it did appear to gimbal OK, the dome would sway back and forth some much on the split backstays as to make it impossible to use. Even drastic tightening of the backstay turnbuckles didn't solve the problem, so I sent it back.  Now I have a Questu mount and its great.

[John Langford]

Hi Bruce,
Can you tell me a little more about the Questu mount? I can't find it on the web...all the references are to some dark computer game!

Cheers,
John

[shekinahsailor]

Bruce, thanks for that insight.  It makes sense when I think about it because the Radar on the Level puts all the weight on the stays whereas the Questus appears to have a support pole parallel to the stay.  Unless others come back and have more positive regarding the Radar on the Level, you've just saved me some troubles.  John, the Questus is under questusmarine.com  and a little cheaper at BoatUS.  Spendy either way - about $1000.  My next thoughts are the manual adjust Garhauer 10 ft pole.  The concept looks ok, just a little more installation - I know this project's going to be a big one.

[Ray & Sandy Erps]

The P.O. installed the RADAR screen above the NAV table on our boat.  First time we were in fog, I was constantly running back and forth from the helm to the NAV station below to see if there was anything to hit.  If I were doing the installation  myself, I think I might mount it in the same place, but I think I'd rig it up with extra slack in the cables and fix up a temporary mount on a companion way board so the CRT could be viewed from the helm.  As it is now, I get plenty of exercise when we're out in the fog.

[tassber]

I installed my Radome on my mast with an Edison mount.  It is out of the way and performs terrific.  Think about your horizon from a higher position for a moment.    It is a pain to do the wiring and mounting on the mast, but it is a neat installation.  My second choice would be on a pole at the stern.  My display is mounted in a navpod above my other insturments at the wheel.  I singlehand very often and could not imagine going below or leaving the wheel in heavy fog or other low visibility conditions.  Even on autopilot it is easier to step behind the wheel for a look than go below to see your display at the nav station.

[mdonoian]

Hello Bruce and John,

In response to Bruce's post on Radar On The Level..Through the years I have had a couple of units with the same problem and what I have done is to upgrade to a pole which takes care of this problem. The pole goes up one side of the split backstay. The split backstay mount is the least expensive mount on the market, also the only split backstay mount on the market. This unit relies solely on the backstay cable to remain stable. At the time of purchase of the split backstay mount I explain to my customers that this problem can and may occur, I also let them know they can upgrade to the pole mount, and I have had customers do this with no complaints. Please visit my website at radaronthelevel.com and you can view the different models and options. I have a friend that has a Catalina 34 saw this post and told me about it. Safe sailing to all....Mike

[rdavison]

I have a Furuno 1622 and Radar on the Level mount.  Here are my observations.

Radar on the level - I installed the original no- pole model three seasons ago.  The rotational swinging was indeed quite distressing and led to a quick analysis of how tight the backstays could be adjusted without causing harm.  Mine are now within limits but definitely tight!  

I also found that keeping the swing gimble quite loose appeared to minimize the rotational swinging tendency, however, another issue is that the swing "bearing" has a bit too much stiction.  This cannot be relieved by loosening the nut because as the pressure comes off the two faces of the  plates of the "bearing", the load increases on a smaller area of the plates due to the offset load angle on the assembly.  The result is that the radar is always offset from level to some degree.  As the boat heels, this causes the whole assembly to rotate about the backstay resulting in a heading offset on the display.  

Finally, as a ham operator (would hold for marine hf ssb as well) I would like use the backstay as an antenna in the traditional way but am uncomfortable with coupling 100 watts of rf into the radar control cable running up one fork of the backstay. I hoist a wire using one of the halyards - not useable underway.

Bottom line is that I would not use the radar on the level without the pole again.  (Comments welcome from Mike D)

Furuno display mounting - I mounted the 1622 on a RAM swing arm at the nav station so that the unit could swing out and be visible form the cockpit.  Doesn't work as intended.  The display is too far away to see well enough.  Fortunately, I had left all the cables full length and coiled in the hanging locker to allow the display to be moved into the cockpit when singlehanding.  It's turned out that the best place for the display is under the dodger to the left of the port winch.  This keeps the display out of the sun but close enough to see from the helm.  I plan to mount the display permanently in this location to avoid having the cables draped over the head door!  

If I had to do it again, I'd mount the display at the helm and be done with it.  The Furuno 1622 can't take any sun at all without the display going dark from heat or UV so I'll wait to replace it before moving to the helm location.

If I had to do it again - better radar, helm mount, separate pole.

Randy Davison  k7voe

[Stu Jackson]

Randy

I have the same "wiring" drooping near the head door from my solar panel.  We mounted it on the aft end of the dodger to port.  The wires are wrapped "gently" around the cleat aft of the port cabintop winch, and then run down the companionway, under a small area rug in the galley/bottom of stairs, then through a cut in the bottom of the door to the water heater and then to the batteries.  The drooping wire gets in the way of closing the head door most of the time.  The wire is small enough so that it fits through the small whole when the hatch is closed and locked.

That was four years ago.  Cory says that I HAVE to run the wires permanently.  I have a waterproof plug, (and the wiring) and can run the wires through a new hole in the cabintop to port and aft of the winch out of the way of lines, tuck to port inside the head (a foot or two across the ceiling of the head) and run behind the mirrored head cabinet section, forward to the panel, down and across the bilge to the batteries.

However, with stereo speakers' wires and the other existing wires running along the port side behind the head cabinet, it sure is getting pretty crowded in there.

Good luck, sounds like a real plan.  {Let's NOT race to see who gets it done first?}

Stu

[rdavison]

Stu

I may beat you to it, only because the two combined radar cables are fatter than your power cables (half an inch around), and need to be re-draped over the door each time the radar is used.

I plan to drop them through the head and then route aft.  The challenge is making the custom teak block that sets the angle of the display bracket correctly and provides for room for the winch handle to pass by.  It will be a tight fit.

And yes...I share an unfortunate willingness to live with messy, short term solutions for far too long...so no race!

For readers of the radar thread:  I think the under dodger location may be as good as mounting at the helm because when the weather is bad, we are usually sitting under the dodger running on autopilot with a remote.  It's really handy to have the radar display where we see it and punch the range buttons frequently.  The Furuno is very effective at seeing crab pots and logs on 1/4 mile range when the weather is calm.  I tend to switch often between 1/4 mile and 1 or 2 miles range (offset forward) in fog or at night.

Randy Davison  k7voe

[cholder]

I installed a Raytheon SL70 radar to my C34-1988 a few years ago.  The dome was installed on a post slotted into the starboard quarter and the display was mounted on the Edson pedestal guard.  It works well and hasn't given any problem of poor visibility in sunny conditions or of water penetration in the wet BC coastal climate.

The post was made locally from regular 2" stainless tube (not pipe).  I had an engine davit included at the same time so the post serves two purposes.  The tube is mounted in a fibreglass tube purchased from a propellor shaft fabrication shop.  The fibreglass tube is very slightly larger than the stainless steel tube.  The fibreglass tube I installed by glassing it into the boat with about 3/4" sticking out of the deck and the bottom resting on a glassed in shelf.  I made a timber filler to fit between the tube and the hull above the shelf and glassed the whole lot into place.  The result is a firm base for the post.  A bit of white gelcoat tidied up the bit of the tube that's visible.

To mount the display I had a local marine fabricator bend a length of 1" tube to make up a cranked pedestal guard similar to that sold by Edson.  They were cheaper and faster than going to Edson.  The display is attached to the tubes by simple angle spacers.  Sometime soon I hope to make up a white ABS plastic mounting because the fancy ones for sale seem far too expensive for what they are.  You can buy the plastic material and make up a box for about $30 if you have basic woodworking skills.

Threading the wires into the pedestal guard is a bit fiddly but with a helper it can be done by running one of the radar wires up each side.  I also have a full set of Raytheon speed, depth, wind speed instruments all of which also have cabling to install but it can be done.

If you want more room in the pedestal guard you could by the attachment for larger tubes from Edson,  Catalina moved up to the larger size a few years ago to simplify cable installations.

[John Langford]

Hi Charles,
Very helpful account of your radar installation. I wonder if you or other readers of this thread have researched the appropriate height above helmsman's head that the dome should be to avoid frying what's left of the skipper's brain cells? I had a SL70 on a pole on my previous boat and I think I made the pole too long. It seemed to bounce around quite a bit in a seaway although it never came to any harm. In that case I secured the bottom of the pole to the swim platform with a further connection at the upper rail of the pushpit. I would like to keep this one as short as possible.

I appreciate your observations re the readability of the SL70 when installed at the helm. I had my screen by the nav station last time which doesn't really work when you are alone. The temptation to buy a colour unit (with chartplotter) is strong even if the pocketbook is weak after purchasing the boat. But I am trying to resist. I'll see what the Vancouver boat show has to offer by way of bargains.

Cheers,
John

[karista]

Has anyone instsalled a Radar Dome on the Garhauer Pole on a MK1? I am planning to install a Radar/Chartplotter Color system but I am not sure regarding the Dome installation.

Bernd Mueller

[kayadakota]

A little off topic.  I installed the raymarine RL70C last season with radome scanner on the mast.  I moved my SL70 from the pedestal down to the nav station and installed the color unit at the helm.    I networked the 2 units together and ran the scanner cable to the SL70 in the nav station, which left for a shorter cable run.

The color units are really worth the money.  They do generate a lot of heat so remmember to ventilate well.  The one problem with my installation is I have to turn on the SL70 below for the scanner to work at the helm.