Electric propulsion

[robertr0816]

Over the winter the admiral mandated that I remove the diesel.
The 25xp will be removed soon.
I have purchased the thunderstruck 12kw kits. Anybody have any experience with electric propulsion on a Catalina 34?

[Stu Jackson]

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Anybody have any experience with electric propulsion on a Catalina 34?

I've been here "since forever," and, no, I don't recall anyone installing one, much less even discussing the possibility.


Issues you will always find when doing research on the subject:
What voltage; if different than 12V how do you deal with 12V equipment; where do you put all the batteries (OK, now empty engine space);  how big do my batteries need to be; what's my range; will LiFePO4 batteries work...

You know all the usual suspects. 

Please keep us advised.  This would make an excellent article for Mainsheet magazine.

[Noah]

Robert— Why did your wife "mandate you remove the diesel"?

[robertr0816]

Robert— Why did your wife "mandate you remove the diesel"?

we are on the long island sound, so there is some periods of no or very little wind. We endup motorsailing a significant amount. Unfortunately conversations and diesels don't mix. She likes to talk. I tried dampening the noise. But it was not significant enough. So her car is electric and now her boat will be as well.

[robertr0816]

I actually did some intensive research over the winter and settled on a 48v system. I will be adding a 48v to 12v converter for a 12v battery. The main battery is a 20kw lifepo4 48v 400ah bank.
One of my main question is placement of the battery I don't believe our battery area currently by the sink can fit four 8d size batteries.
The range will be tested and if not sufficient we would add a generator in some sort of enclosure. Current gas/propane generators are very quiet and have clean power at very high wattages (30amps).
I will for sure document the steps and will be hoping for critique and better ideas if you all see me doing something wrong.

[Carbon]

I'm very interested in this project. I've been reading up on it and naturally watching YouTube videos. For my use, boat on an inland lake in Missouri, I think it makes a lot of sense. Kick it in and out of the slip, motor about a mile to get out of the cove where you put the sails up. Very little range is required.

What worries me about your application is this quote: "We endup motorsailing a significant amount".

If you do the simple math you can get an idea of the range. 12KW motor and a 20KW battery, you can run it at full power for 1.67 hours. At 6.5 Knots that would give you a range of around 11NM. Of course, you can pull the power back go slower and extend the range. Say at 1/2 power you'd be drawing 6KW and the battery would last 3.3 hours. But then you be going slower, say 4.5 knots, and your range would be around 15 NM. Not very far for a cruising boat that may need to cover some miles when the wind is light.

I have another sailboat boat on Lake Michigan. It's not uncommon for us to just put the hammer down and motor 50NM in a day to make it to somewhere before it gets dark. It would take an unreasonable amount of batteries to make that happen.

Overall I like the idea of electric propulsion in a sailboat. We all hate listening to the diesel. However, you just can't beat the energy density of diesel fuel if you need range.

Jack

[robertr0816]

You are right about the limited range,
That is why solar and a small generator will need to be added as a backup. A small inverter generator in a purpose built enclosure would give us plenty of energy to motor out of the cove and keep motoring for hours at a decent speed. I was thinking of it being some sort of hybrid system. The new inverter generators are very quiet and very easy to maintain, they are cheap compare to diesel generators. They are also very efficient, a honda 2000 with .95 gallons at full load will run for 3.4 hours.

[Noah]

Also, our boats don't go fast enough to get any significant "regen" benefit. There are plenty of spaces onboard to load up batteries, if you want to get creative with 48v battery case sizes, long wire runs and sacrificing storage space. You didn't mention whether you have solar. If you don't, you should add it. This will be interesting experiment to follow. Keep us posted.

[Noah]

You posted while I was writing so
1. Good to know you are adding solar.
2. Your statement " . The new inverter generators are very quiet and very easy to maintain, they are cheap compare to diesel generators. They are also very efficient, a honda 2000 with .95 gallons at full load will run for 3.4 hours."
They are not any quieter than your 25XPX if you are in cockpit? Plus you can't (or I wouldn't recommend) running a Honda/gas or propane down below. So you might want to rethink that inverter generator part. But I am not an expert on propane conversions. I have been at anchor with neighbors running Hondas and it was not relaxing.

[Colonel Butler]

Might want to check with your insurance company. They may require a survey to determine if the installation meets ABYC standards before you get down the path of no return.

[robertr0816]

Might want to check with your insurance company. They may require a survey to determine if the installation meets ABYC standards before you get down the path of no return.

good idea.

[Carbon]

Robert

I'm not sure your idea of using a Honda 2000 Generator to extend range is going to work. The "2000" is for Watts, so it puts out 2KW. Your electric motor needs 12KW at full power, so the generator is not even close. You should expect more like 1/6th power from the generator. Maybe that would move you along at a knot or two.

If you think about it for a minute, you can't expect to replace a 3 cylinder diesel with a one cylinder gas engine and get the same amount of power. Having 2KW in reserve for docking might be nice for docking, but you're not going to cover miles with it.

Also, just looking at it without any inefficiency, it would take that 2Kw generator 10 hours to recharge your 20KW battery bank from zero.

I hate to sound like a nattering nabob of negativity, but there are some serious technical hurdles.

[Ron Hill]

Guys : Last year I had a Generac 14KW installed. It runs on naturel gas, but quiet it is not!!  Of course the enclosure it's was not made with sound proofing!!  It kicks in every Tues.PM for a maintenance check.

With my M25XP engine - on two occasions I've had a marina owner and on another a dockmaster say to me when I was throwing off my bow lines, "Aren't you going to start your engine"? which was already running!!! The moral of that story is that you can get the M25XP to run smoothly and quietly!!

A few thoughts

[Steve McGill]

If your on Facebook check out the "Catalina 34 sailboat enthusiasts" group. James Ure replaced his diesel with electric.  Interesting project.

[Noah]

Steve—If it is helpful information can you please post a link to it?