Heavy steering?

[Gusc]

I am close to buying a 1987 catalina 34 and the only issue with it from the survey is heavy steering, from stop to stop. The boat is on the hard abd th surveyor didn't give me any clues as to what that could be.

I visited the boat today with the seller and we tried to troubleshoot. For the seller it's not heavy because it's been this way since he bought it 3 years ago. But indeed it's a bit heavy, and it feels there is some friction somewhere.

We removed the compass and the chain looks ok, lubricated. We looked at the sheaves and cable from the aft berth and they look good.

We then saw a fiberglass tube coming down from the emergency tiller head down to the quadrant and it looks like that tube is touching the quadrant. What is that tube? Should it be touching it? If it should be away from the quadrant how do I fix it?

Thanks!!!

[KWKloeber]

Is it a radial wheel or a quadrant?

Moving it, is it tight if there is some slack in the cables? (ie, a tight rudder stock? (eg, possible bent shaft?) vs tight steering hardware?
"what" tube?  Everyone has to have a gazillion pixel camera in their pocket at all times, right?

[Ron Hill]

Gusc : The stainless tube has to be attached to the cable wheel.  I assume that this hull has a wing keel??

Has the boat a new elliptical rudder or the old OEM rudder??

Have you looked at the rudder packing gland?

A few thoughts

[Gusc]

Here is a picture of it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9axil0fw7g0cgwq/20210308_144437.jpg?dl=0

[ewengstrom]

Not sure what's going on there but the fiberglass tube sticking down onto the quadrant head looks a bit odd. For your reference here's a shot of ours when I had the aft cabin torn apart. As you can see, the rudder post doesn't have that tube sticking down. I'd definitely investigate this issue further.

[ewengstrom]

Actually....that's not the pic I thought i was going to post and in that shot it looks like the tube is there.

[Gusc]

Hi Ron, thank you! Yes, the keel is wing, and the rudder is the original.

My hunch so far points to the compression bearing, as in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtFBbP_iP8k

Does that sounds like a possibility?

Gusc : The stainless tube has to be attached to the cable wheel.  I assume that this hull has a wing keel??

Has the boat a new elliptical rudder or the old OEM rudder??

Have you looked at the rudder packing gland?

A few thoughts

[Gusc]

Hi Eric, thank you!
It looks like your fiberglass tube over the quadrant is also touching it, right?

Not sure what's going on there but the fiberglass tube sticking down onto the quadrant head looks a bit odd. For your reference here's a shot of ours when I had the aft cabin torn apart. As you can see, the rudder post doesn't have that tube sticking down. I'd definitely investigate this issue further.

[Gusc]

Is it a radial wheel or a quadrant?

Thank you! I have been saying it wrong all along - it is a radial wheel.

[Gusc]

Have you looked at the rudder packing gland?

Ron, no, I am not sure how to look at that. I am trying to find a diagram of the whole system, but haven't been lucky. Edson has a nice diagram of their parts, but the other pieces of the rudder system I am not so clear how they work.

[Stu Jackson]

This might help:

https://www.c34.org/faq-pages/techdata-rudder-packing-gland.html

[lazybone]

Try loosening the cables at the eye bolts and slipping them off the quadrant.   That will let you test the rudder and the binnacle separately.  Use the emergency tiller to move the rudder.   Try the emergency tiller before you start so you have a baseline for the amount of force required.

[Gusc]

This might help:

https://www.c34.org/faq-pages/techdata-rudder-packing-gland.html

Stu, thank you so much. This helps having a little clearer idea of how it works, but I am not there 100% yet.  :) (I don't have a boat to compare the drawing to what I actually see, so I have to go by memory and the few pictures I took) :)

How would the packing glad affect my symptom of having extra friction somewhere causing heavier than normal rudder movement?

Thanks!

[KWKloeber]

Mates

I had a (sounds identical) hard steering issue that I discovered/corrected. But before I go down a rabbit hole I want to ensure I'm picturing this correctly.  Is this the yr/model with a high emergency tiller (ie, lazarette) or cockpit sole tiller plate?

[Gusc]

Mates

I had a (sounds identical) hard steering issue that I discovered/corrected. But before I go down a rabbit hole I want to ensure I'm picturing this correctly.  Is this the yr/model with a high emergency tiller (ie, lazarette) or cockpit sole tiller plate?

(edited)
This is a wing keel, with emergency tiller head on the cockpit sole in an indentation in the fiberglass aft lazarette behind the wheel.