Vertical Keel Crack

[Indootime]

I know this was discussed once on the site but the thread ended before an answer was posted.  I have a 1989 C-34 in beautiful condition however it has a crack going vertical.   Since the boat is a 89 it has stainless steel keel bolts that are in perfect condition (fresh water boat), as well as the keel stub not being wood.  I'm not sure if the crack is typical for the 34's and is just on the outside or is something more serious.  I have read on a few other sites that this is superficial and needs to be faired, as well as the rebedding the keel.  I also read that lead will not typically crack.

Your thoughts?

Thank you,

PS - January 26 - The OP is no longer affiliated with this boat.  He has removed his offer on it.  He was not in any way associated with the removal of any parts from the boat.    [Stu Jackson, forum administrator]

PPS - We have left this thread intact because of the valuable information and links it contains.

[oldcatsailor]

Going through same thing. Looks like water leaking from the bilge thru the stub bolts . can fair and appoxy seal the bolts so water can't get down ,looks like water is under the glass fairing . right way is to drop the keel down clean out between stub and keel and 5200 them tighten keel bolts ,when dry tourqe to spec. Involves yard  lifting boat off keel for a day . why I'm paying to have done . caused by hard grounding or improper blocking should be booked front of keel.

[Noah]

If you normally have a dry bilge, then it is probably just cosmetic—water trapped under fairing.  I would V-grind all cracks, then torque keel bolts, then fill exterior cracks with thickened epoxy, then fair, then apply epoxy primer, then bottom paint.

[KWKloeber]

Pat

If that was my keel I wouldn't be happy with less than grinding away all (every inch of) the joint fairing to see what's good and what's good vs. bad.  I started with a much smaller smile than yours and found about 1/3 the joint bedding (C-30) was punky (like wet gypsum drywall.)  CTY bedded the lead to the keel buss using polyester mung which is hydrophilic (loves and absorbs water, and water turns it to dust, e.g. like hull blisters.)

You may be lucky and need just a V grind out and to 5200 the cleaned-out crack, but you can't tell the extent until the fairing is removed.

OldCat

I never used the yard (except to demast so the hull didn't turtle with the kell off.)

I added screw jacks to the corners of my cradle, blocked the keel in place with a 2x4 frame, and after cutting thru the joint, jacked the boat up just enough to clear the boots.
I made the frame so I could jack the keel sideways so I had clear room to work on the keel top and keel buss. 
Then simply reversed the process to put er back together.
I have pics of the frame if you ever tackle this.

[Noah]

Pat- you are correct that your 1989-90 year boat does NOT have a wood sandwich in the bilge/keel joint. All glass and bedding compound. I would do some exploratory grinding along the crack and see where you are. The repair solution is "somewhere" between what I propose and Ken proposes. 

[Indootime]

Thank you so much with the helpful replies.  I am new to this forum and not sure if there is a PM (private message) feature, if so I would like to share my email or phone so I can get some additional information or pics.

Thank you,

Pat

[Stu Jackson]

Thank you so much with the helpful replies.  I am new to this forum and not sure if there is a PM (private message) feature, if so I would like to share my email or phone so I can get some additional information or pics.

Thank you,

Pat

Yes, there is a pm feature, just click on any other member's name.

But I encourage you to keep it all here.  You noted the earlier thread ended.  Why not keep this one going so everyone can benefit?

[KWKloeber]

The repair solution is "somewhere" between what I propose and Ken proposes.

Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting a repair cuz I don't know the extent of how punky or the lateral/depth extent.  The range could be from grind/5200 some of the joint, to the full Monty.

FWIW, when I started removing fairing I found punky joint existed well beyond the point of what I'd consider "good" fairing.  Although I theoretically could have ground out only the punky joint, it wasn't practical because the punky areas extended the full width of the keel. 
Getting rid of the mung wasn't a fun job, BTW.

[Noah]

There is a PM feature and some folks also list their email. Just click on the poster's name and it brings up a a window with links to all of their contact and profile info.

[Indootime]

The repair solution is "somewhere" between what I propose and Ken proposes.

Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting a repair cuz I don't know the extent of how punky or the lateral/depth extent.  The range could be from grind/5200 some of the joint, to the full Monty.

FWIW, when I started removing fairing I found punky joint existed well beyond the point of what I'd consider "good" fairing.  Although I theoretically could have ground out only the punky joint, it wasn't practical because the punky areas extended the full width of the keel. 
Getting rid of the mung wasn't a fun job, BTW.

I will certainly keep this going and be sure to post the outcome, I only asked about the PM feature so I could get some pics of repairs from people without over loading this thread. 

[Noah]

Lots of ways to proceed depending on severity. The Catalina drawing attached, says "V-grind and fill with MatineTex or other compound...glassing over joint after is optional...". I suggest thickened epoxy or Gflex epoxy instead of MarineTex. However, if it turns out the entire joint is soft/compromised, then you may need to consider a more heroic approach.

[KWKloeber]

Noah there's something amiss with that GIF - zero bytes, wouldn't open.
Here's my PDF version.

Picture the picture w/ 1/3 of the aft end of the keel having no mung bedding (~1/4" to ~3/8" thick) the full width (thickness) of the keel.  YIKES!   

[KWKloeber]

Pat

[PS:  The left sidebar has links to send the member a PM or send a direct email (for those who allow member-to-member contact.)]


Here are pics you asked for from that project - I just uploaded my entire folder to make it easy (on me.)
https://c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Page_of_keel_and_bottom_job_pics


The frame for the keel - I built it so that I could keep the keel supported (from tipping forward) while I slid (hydraulic jacked) the keel sideways in increments -- like slide the bottom 4-5", tip the top plumb and block it; slide another bit, tip the top plumb and block it; repeat until it was to the other side of the frame/cradle.

Frame at the bow - ignore that - it had nothing to do w/ the keel rebed; I supported her so that after I entirely took down the bottom I could spray the barrier coats and VC-17 w/o having my screw jack/cradle pads in my way or jack stands up front.

I wouldn't even think of having the yard lift my hull -- the owner was a real jerk and owners could never rely on any sort of schedule.  There'd be 4 or 5 waiting to splash in spring, and he'd just decide to jump on the tractor to cut grass.  Plus he damaged another boat with my bow rail, damaged my boat, and dumped my grill overboard.

[Jim Hardesty]

Your thoughts?

Pat,
My thoughts, you have a big "Catalina smile" with a vertical crack in the fairing.  Probable cause, jack stands too tight.  Especially the V-stand at the bow.  I keep that one loose over winter.  May need to retorque the keel nuts or at least check. Search this site and you will find a lot of information on what others have done.  Try keywords like catalina smile, keel bolts, keel nuts, etc.
Hope that helps,
Jim

[Indootime]

Received some additional information about the boat that would explain some of the cracking...GROUNDED HARD!   Now I'm more worried about stringers that run perpendicular to the hull in the keel area.   I took this project on as a chance because it is such a nice and well kept boat and I really want to give it a second chance.  I will report interior damage if any and we can all go to plan-B.

Pat