Refrigerator replacement

[Analgesic]

My 1988 Mark I has a probably original Adler Barbour Cold Machine that no longer cycles  off, fan doesn't work and is covered in rust.  I guess it's time.  I was advised to look into a Frigoboat keel cooled unit which reportedly runs very quietly and efficiently.  The company says it's a DIY installation.  First, I wonder if anyone can report on their experience with this brand.  Second, I'm nervous about removal of the old unit.  Obviously I should not release the refrigerant but is there a trick to safe removal without calling an expensive technician?  What about disposal?   Like many, my compressor is under the settee forward of the table with the copper tubing running on top of the starboard water tank. 

[Bill Shreeves]

Have you looked at the Isotherm SP's?  I think they are similar technology

Which brings me to a question I've been thinking about.

I have no refrigeration on my '87 and I'm seriously considering an isotherm SP 2050 or 2351 SP as my first refrigeration that I'll install this winter.  The 2050 is rated for 4.4 cu ft which is sized close to the '87 ice box.  I was thinking, knowing there is no insulation and it may be some time before I tackle the insulation problem and the Chesapeake gets pretty darn steamy, that it might be worthwhile go for the 2351 rated at 5.3 cu ft till I can insulate.  Might I have a problem with rapid cycling once I do insulate?

I'd appreciate thoughts on that as well as alternatives such as the Frigoboat

[waughoo]

I'm in the same decision making process.  I have an origonal AB from 1991.  It is rusty and has a burned out board.  I could try buying a new board but I think I'd rather spend that money towards a finished working solution.  I plan to go with an air cooled unit though.  Im looking at an Isotherm 2012.  It is sized for a 5.5 cubic foot box.  That SHOULD allow for some room if the ambient air temp in the cabin (where the compressor will go) gets a bit on the high side.

I'd love to hear from anyone who has one.  This decision has me quite anxious as it is moderatly expenaive and will be with me for a long time.

[Patches]

Bill:

I am in the same position as you:  no refrigerator on my 1990.  After a lot of back and forth, I decided to go with a portable Engle 45.  I'm going to mount it on the seat in the aft cabin, which is where I currently have a portable Igloo cooler.  I removed the cushion and use a tie down strap wrapped around the box below the lid, and anchored on the aft cabin bulkhead (on the other side of the stove) and on the starboard liner just forward of the back cushion.

The Engles really don't draw many amps (a strong consideration), are plug and play, and can be easily moved.  They also come with plugs for AC and DC.  I converted the ice box to all dry storage.

I remember reading (a long time ago) an article by some famous sailor type--I want to say Nigel Calder--who installed one on a brand new Pacific Seacraft 44 and had the factory cut out the dimensions on the galley counter top so he could just pull out the self-contained refer unit from the top for maintenance or replacement. I considered that, but determined our boats don't really have the counter space.

I'll be purchasing one for the upcoming season--after I do my electrical upgrade with the new Firefly batteries.  So I don't have first hand experience yet.  But many swear by them, including some of the better known sailing vloggers who spend a lot of time off grid.

As Ron would say:   a thought.

Patches

[Jim Hardesty]

After a lot of back and forth, I decided to go with a portable Engle 45.

I have an Engle MR040-U1 that I use as a freezer.  Bought it for longer trips where grocery shopping from a boat is a pain.  It's quiet, keeps food at 0 F, and doesn't use much battery power.  Got to try it out last season on a week long cruise,  am happy with it.  Tried every place I could think of to put it, ended up port side forward of the knee hole for the nav station.  Isn't in the way, too much, and doesn't block anything that I'd need access to.  Still thinking about other places. 
Off topic, a complaint, on Lake Erie not a lot of anchorages, and most Yacht clubs and marinas ban using a propane grill on a boat.  Don't understand the reasoning.  Unless it's to encourage restaurant business.
Jim

[scgunner]

Brian,

There have been a number of threads on this subject, a lot of good information. You'll have to decide which way you want to go. I did a replacement a couple years ago myself. I was pretty much in the same boat(pun intended)as you. After looking around I decided to stay with Adler Barbour for a few reasons; first, while I'm sure other units are good, my A/B worked flawlessly for 31yrs with zero maintenance before it failed. Second, since it's the same unit, it's a straight R/R with no modification necessary and it's an upgraded unit from the one originally installed in your boat. Additionally it's a very DIY unit, including the charging of the system.

Concerning your old unit, if it's continuously running you've probably already lost your refrigerant. In my case a copper line leading to the original compressor corroded and eventually developed a leak. Had I known and protected those lines my original A/B would probably still be working today.

[Stu Jackson]

From 101 Topics:

Refrigeration 101 - link to Richard Kollmann's website

http://www.kollmann-marine.com/

It might be worth some time looking around Richard's site to find out his views on water cooled units.  IIRC, he records some negatives about it.  Air cooled works just fine for most, save perhaps those in the real tropics.  The downsides include more moving parts.  Insulation can go a long way to reducing energy use.  However, the way you use your boat and where you sail also contribute.

i sailed in San Francisco for 18 years before I moved to Canada in 2016.  I also sailed up to The California Delta many times, 95+F daily.  I have not added insulation to my box, still have the original A/B with a new module in 2016.  It uses 60 ah per day.  Jeff Tancock recently added refrigeration to his boat and super insulated his box and reports a daily ah draw of half of mine.

One way to deal with load is to insulate.  Another way to do it is to add more storage, i.e., batteries.  Of course, this depends on how you use your boat and what systems you have and/or have access to to recharge.  I can go for week long outings and charge by motoring between anchorages or plugging in at docks in towns I visit.  Others use solar.

Your boat, your choice. 

[scgunner]

Stu,

The fact that you're still using your original A/B unit is a testament to the reliability of that system. Under the heading of if I knew then what I know now, I'd recommend, if you haven't already, that you inspect the copper refrigerant lines for any signs of green corrosion, especially at the connectors on the compressor. That's where mine failed, even a just a protective coat of marine grease and I'd probably still be using my original A/B too.

[Stu Jackson]

Thanks, Kevin, good idea, will do.

Years ago I had a friend with a nice old Volvo station wagon, one of those 70s boxy "classic" things.  We were in San Francisco, where it rarely got warm/hot.  But one day it did, and as I drove around with him I asked why he didn't turn on his air conditioning.     "Oh, it doesn't work anymore," he said.   He hadn't used it in so long the seals had dried up. 

So, as part of pm I run mine every other month for a while.

Now I'll check the copper lines, too.  Thanks.

[Analgesic]

To Stu and others, the Kohlman link no longer works.  Looking through the other refrigeration links and replies, still no guidance as far as how to remove and dispose of the old Cold Machine I want to replace.  Anyone have any thoughts/experience and anyone ever use a Frigoboat?  The idea of 30% less power draw and "virtually silent " running is an attractive combination if the claims are true.  I'm a light sleeper and the former cycling compressor and fan used to wake me up. 

[Noah]

I have the original Cold Machine too. According to my manual you can unbolt the refrigerant lines from the compressor using two wrenches and you will only lose a drop or two of refrigerant. There are photos of how to do this in the manual and it is very specific where to wrench and where not to. I will be at the boat tomorrow and can take a photo of my manual's compressor disassembly instructions and send it to you.

[Stu Jackson]

Brian,

Thanks, need to take the hyphen out, try this, I'll go correct the 101 link, too.

Refrigeration 101 - link to Richard Kollmann's website

http://www.kollmannmarine.com

[waughoo]

I will be at the boat tomorrow and can take a photo of my manual's compressor disassembly instructions and send it to you.

Also interested in this as i too have to open mine up.  I was concerned i would need a refrigerant specialist who could capture it so i could then remove it.

[scgunner]

Brian,

Sorry, I think we've wandered off topic concerning your original questions. Regarding the question of disposal, Noah is correct, the couplings have valves which prevent refrigerant loss and while there is a specific process for connecting the couplings to prevent leakage, disconnection is just a matter of unscrewing the couplings.

On your question of the Frigoboat unit, I took a look at it and this is what I found; it uses a Danfoss compressor like the A/B, the control module looks identical to the A/B unit, the evaporator is the same as A/B uses, the fan looks about the same as the A/B fan, it has pre-charged lines also like the A/B. The Frigoboat compressor unit is assembled exactly like the A/B unit so it has the same install footprint and pricewise it costs about the same as the A/B unit. In other words depending on weather you buy a Frigoboat or an A/B you're basically getting the same unit.

As far as the claims of 30% less power draw and "virtually silent", that will be hard to determine until you've actually installed it. As far as the 30% less power draw goes, the current A/B unit has been improved and upgraded over the '80s unit, includes a more efficient compressor(same as the Frigoboat) that runs much colder than the original which means you can run the compressor less time to maintain the same temperature in the fridge. That might be where that 30% figure comes from. The virtual silence might just be in the ears of the beholder, maybe it is quieter than the A/B unit but the Frigoboat fan looks just like the one I've got on my A/B.

[Noah]

Hope these scans work?!?