Smile repair

[jamie mccormick]

So  can i just   " v" out crack on my 1988 keel, and apply some g/flex 655 or some other product,(3M 5200?) and get a fix for a crack along the leading edge.it looks to be a small opening on the leading edge, tapering to a hairline crack for 18".

[scgunner]

Jamie,

I usually just grind mine out, or "v" it, let it dry out for a day or two, then fill it with West System, sand it smooth and finish it off with primer and bottom paint.

[KWKloeber]

Jamie You can, but long-term success depends on

1) How bad (or good) the keel bedding is once you start grinding below the surface.
Mine was punky for about half the length of the bedding. Water had attacked the polyester-resin-based bedding and I had an extensive project.

2) whether you want it one-and-done or a periodic-maintenance item.
I wrapped the joint with bi-axial fiberglass tape/epoxy resin (would probably use carbon fiber tape now) and faired it using medium density filler. That was ~25 yrs ago and no recurrence.

-Ken

[Noah]

Assuming no sign of leaking, I vote for the simple V grind and fill with Gflex.

[Ron Hill]

jami : After you make a fix, just make sure that the next time the boat is blocked that the majority of the weight is on the nose of the keel!

An important thought   

[jamie mccormick]

Thanks for the replys,I dremeled out the smile , it doesn"t appear to be punky,there is now palm sized chip out of the leading edge of the keel ,which i assume needs  epoxy.wondering do i epoxy up to the crack then apply G/flex, or just epoxy chip area and crack both, ....also i do suspect the boat is not in cradle properly ,there is no blocking under keel.

[KWKloeber]

J

In my opinion, you have some major grinding, of various types/objectives, to do in order to fix the smile - even to the lowest acceptable repair. If you are intending to fill what you have (I presume that the photo is the finished product of dremmeling?) you'll have continuing problems.

A dremel (IMO) is generally not an adequate tool for keel bedding repairs.  What would you think of a body shop that uses dremel tools to work on a crash up of your vehicle?  An angle grinder is about 12 boat bucks at harbor freight (plus grinding wheels, sanding discs, etc.)

You need to get deeper into that crack (there's still "cracks" present - you are not yet in to competent keel-to-buss bedding. I've done extensive f'glass and 'poxy work/repairs for 35 years and found an angle grinder is a  MUST for most keel joint work. You can't just fill that palm-size missing section of fairing - it needs to me feathered back and filled and faired, which you cannot do with a dremel.
Have you read any of the West Systems' Epoxyworks tech articles on filling/fairing?  If not I can find and link you to them.

https://groups.io/g/Catalina30/album?id=63662

Ken

[Stu Jackson]

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....also i do suspect the boat is not in cradle properly ,there is no blocking under keel.

Have you considered getting some shims and putting some blocking under the keel?

[jamie mccormick]

just wasnt sure how far to go with grinding, i havent done this before,it only took a few minutes to do what i did.I have not seen tech articles that you speak of.I guess i could have keel shimmed and or blocked in cradle but was planing on launching next week .I will make sure its done in the fall

[LogoFreak]

This brings back some memories... not on a Catalina 34 but a Catalina 30. If it were my boat and I intended to sail it for many years to come and not worry I'd be dropping the keel. You'll never know how those bolts look like...

https://jeunesse27.wordpress.com/projects/

[dfloeter]

Just another thought, have you torqued the keel bolt nuts?  Maybe shim and jack up the front of the keel, torque the nuts and see what happens to the leading edge gap? 

[jamie mccormick]

Torqueing the bolts, not really in my comfort zone at this stage, my thought is wait to see what it looks like after the summer and scratch my head about it then.

[KWKloeber]

just wasnt sure how far to go with grinding, i havent done this before,it only took a few minutes to do what i did.I have not seen tech articles that you speak of.

The pix show that there is a crack between the remaining bedding and the keel -- the bedding looks intact against the keel buss.  At least that's what I can see from the pix but naturally it's difficult to determine the extent of good and bad.  If there is a crack still there (discontinuous between the two parts,) movement and stresses will create a new crack and repeat the process.  Plus water getting down thru the keel bolt threads attacks the polyester-based joint bedding.  So, IIWMB, I would be grinding with a angle grinder and narrow blade to get deep in to the bedding to where the bedding is still attached to the keel.  If is isn't, then going deep will allow a good bit of material to adhere to both the keel and keel buss.  When I dropped the keel, I rebed with 5200 (per West Systems recommendation) which allows some minimal movement/stress without opening up/creating a new crack.  Wrapping the joint and faring it out maintains the integrity of the fairing (preventing a hunk gone missing like is in your pix.)

The Epoxyworks are on the West Sytems website for download.

-ken   

[Jim Hardesty]

Torqueing the bolts, not really in my comfort zone at this stage,

IMHO  That should be the first step.  Lot's of information here on how to retorque keel bolts.
Jim

[Ron Hill]

jami : Beside having the majority of the weight on the nose of the keel; make sure that the rear pads at very tight and the bow pads are just snug.  This makes sure the hull will not "rock" back as the keel stays "put"  - opening up that bow to hull seal!   

A thought