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Author Topic: Injector pump rebuilder in Maryland  (Read 591 times)

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WTunnessen

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Injector pump rebuilder in Maryland
« on: July 09, 2018, 08:04:18 AM »

Looks like I might need to have the injector pump for my M25XP re-built.

Does anyone have any recommendations for diesel workshop in Maryland (western shore) or the Washington DC metro area that might be able to do it?

Unfortunately, in the process of replacing my injectors, two of the nozzles the injector pump rotated when I tried loosen the compression nut on the fuel line. After re-installing the injectors, there was a fuel leak around the nozzles. I also noticed a loss of fuel flow thru the middle injector. I wound up removing two of the valves completely since the compression nuts on the nozzles where completely frozen requiring a lot of PB blaster brute force to get off. I replaced the o-rings, re-installed the nozzles, and bled everything.

For some people, that procedure worked. However, I can not get the engine to turn over. It sounds fuel starved.  Additionally, while bleeding the injectors while cranking the engine, the fuel only seeped out of the injector compression nut rather than sprayed.  A boat neighbor helping thought there might be a lack of pressure. I'm not sure since I've never bled injectors before. The electric fuel pump is working.

Part of why I replaced the injectors was due to a lack of power and difficulty getting higher RPMs. The injectors have been suspect for years but the recent loss of power occurred during and after motor sailing in rough conditions. The engine would run fine for an hour and then lose power.  There was some crude in the filter but the symptoms I experienced were very similar to those Ron and others have described in their posts about injector pump issues.  I have a new fuel tank circa 2007 so I don't think there is a screen on the pick up line but I have not checked it. Fuel filters have all been changed & bled. However, I did disturb the injector pump nozzles and I have seen other posts that say that if that has happens, then the pump needs to be rebuilt.

If anyone has some other suggestions, please let me know.


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Gaulois #579 C34 Tall Rig - CYC West River, MD

Ron Hill

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Re: Injector pump rebuilder in Maryland
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2018, 02:37:05 PM »

WT : Get ahold of Hartge Yacht Yard on the West River where you are and they can tell you who in the area rebuilds Injection pumps and Injectors. 

To check for the screen in the pickup tube, just loosen and remove the pickup tube from the tank and look at the bottom of the short piece of fuel hose attached to the PU tube.

A few thoughts

« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 02:39:12 PM by Ron Hill »
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Ron, Apache #788

KWKloeber

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Re: Injector pump rebuilder in Maryland
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2018, 09:23:08 PM »

Being a standard pump used in many diesel applications, I would take it to s local diesel truck service shop or a local Kubota shop.  Those would be your least expensive routes, as there’s nothing “marine’ about that aspect of our engines.

-k
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Ron Hill

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Re: Injector pump rebuilder in Maryland
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2018, 03:51:59 PM »

Ken : Of course you stated the obvious.
 It just so happened the Hartge's does a lot of work on Universal engines and is just up the river from WT.  I'm sure they can tell him the closest shop that rebuilds and tests injectors and pumps.

A thought

 
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WTunnessen

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Re: Injector pump rebuilder in Maryland
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2018, 01:12:24 PM »

Luke at Hartge's said they've used Baltimore Diesel in Glenn Burnie in the past. I called Baltimore Diesel who thought they could rebuild it but need to see it first.  Plan to take the pump up there on Saturday AM.  Is there anything I should tell the shop other than the engine model and that its a KIKI brand PFR type injector pump with roller tappers?
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Gaulois #579 C34 Tall Rig - CYC West River, MD

KWKloeber

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Re: Injector pump rebuilder in Maryland
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2018, 01:35:10 PM »

If they're any good they'll know the pump. 
You could also give them the Kb engine model.
Universal M-25XP = Kubota D950 but they probably see these pumps dancing in their sleep.

-k
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Ron Hill

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Re: Injector pump rebuilder in Maryland
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2018, 02:28:48 PM »

WT : I happened to find the guys that rebuilt my pump and rebuilt my injectors a number of times.
They were located in the Industrial Park on the corner of I 395 and the beltway (behind Marlow's furniture)

You can give them a call and see if they're still there -- if that's closer for you than Baltimore Diesel.
United Diesel  tel. 703-750-3040

A thought
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Robert Mann

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Re: Injector pump rebuilder in Maryland
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2018, 06:19:28 AM »

Check https://www.stardiesel.com/en/repair-kits-for-conventional-injection-pumps/zexel-denso-pumps.html.  This shows a good representative cross section through a simple injection pump, as used for instance by Kubota. As you can see, if you removed the plunger and barrel top "nut" on the injection pump and replaced everything in order there should be no issue, sealing washer, springs and the top valve are vital parts.  There is a lot of BS that is spouted about these types of pumps.  Timing is adjusted by shims under the pump, altering the height of the roller tappet in comparison to the camshaft. Only two things can really affect the timing, cam wear or roller tappet wear.  You shouldn't have this type of wear in the normal life of our marine engines.  Certain mechanics get wealthy on unsuspecting customers.  In my experience the most common failure is dirty fuel causing the plungers and barrels to wear.  Change filters don't run dirty fuel. If you run water through this type of fuel system, indirect injection, single hole injector nozzle, run clean fuel from a bucket straight after and all is good.  If you leave water in the pump and injectors, both are usually scrap.  The injectors can be simply checked by taking them to a diesel shop with a "pop tester".  This checks that the injector opens at the correct pressure and does not dribble fuel when the nozzle closes, due to carbon build up on the needle face. 

In the case mentioned, I would recheck that you assembled the pump back in the correct sequence, check all fuel fittings for tightness and that there are no suction air leaks.  Make sure you have fuel pressure at the injection pump inlet, with the electric pump running and the fitting loose and that  fuel is truly blasting out, if not there is an up stream blockage issue.  Look for simple problems first.  Bleed every fitting, let the fuel run out of the pump and when I bleed mine I crack each injector line at the injector to get the air out and re-tighten, while the engine is cranking.  Make sure the fuel is running through the return line back to the tank, if it isn't open the valve.  This can also cause air to remain in the system.  You can check injectors, visually, by taking them put of the engine and turning them round on the injection line, cranking the engine and let them spray into the air.  This is messy and dangerous if you get your hand in the spray, due to the pressure.  I only do this when absolutely necessary.

Make sure you haven't done something silly with the shut down cable and that it is holding the lever in a partial or complete shutdown position.   

Hope this helps.



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WTunnessen

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Re: Injector pump rebuilder in Maryland
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2018, 11:29:05 AM »

Ron - United Diesel is still around but Baltimore Diesel is open on Saturday mornings, so I went there. 

They recognized the pump and said they have worked on them in the past, but usually they are very durable and rarely require service.  On Monday they called to let me know it was done. Since they had the repair kit (like what Robert mentioned) in stock, they were able to do job quickly.  They also confirmed there was a problem with the pump. 

To Robert's point, when I brought the pump in and described the symptoms, they asked me about the shut valve and even suggested taking the shutoff assembly apart to make sure there isn't any crude stuck somewhere there. Not sure I want go that far, but I will double the lever and cable connections when I re-install the pump.
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Ron Hill

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Re: Injector pump rebuilder in Maryland
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2018, 02:39:37 PM »

WT : Glad that you got your problem solved. 
As I said in my Mainsheet article I elected to go for a rebuild and not a new pump because of the timing gyration that I might have had to go thru.  Simpler to just use the old pump body and the already "timed" shims.

A thought

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WTunnessen

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Re: Injector pump rebuilder in Maryland
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2018, 02:52:29 PM »

Ron - when you reinstalled the pump, what did you do about the spring shown in this picture. I believe its part of idle adjustment.
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Ron Hill

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Re: Injector pump rebuilder in Maryland
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2018, 02:03:22 PM »

WT : I just reinstalled the pump - didn't do anything else. 
Just make sure that nobody hits the starter or using the drive belt turn the engine over!!!!

A thought
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Robert Mann

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Re: Injector pump rebuilder in Maryland
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2018, 07:45:38 AM »

While I can not see that spring in the parts list, I suspect it's a buffer spring.  It either prevents the pump rack moving too freely and causing engine speed instability, or it prevents the pump moving to over fuel during acceleration and causing black smoke.  It looks like it has a tamper proof cap over the outside adjustment. the spring needs to be there.  If you remove the cap and find a way to remove the spring so you can install the pump make sure you exactly count the turns to remove the spring. It could well be that a small deviation in the position affects the fuelling. This is a guess on my part, but I suggest caution here. 
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Robert Mann

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Re: Injector pump rebuilder in Maryland
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2018, 07:57:09 AM »

I'm wrong it's the start spring, which allows excess fuel during start up, aids cold start.  Same applies needs to be there and relative position is important.
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Robert Mann

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Re: Injector pump rebuilder in Maryland
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2018, 07:58:45 AM »

Item 29 is the part that holds the spring in I suppose, although the illustration is not very good quality.
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