Lifelines from CD

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Bill Shreeves

Anybody have any experience or thoughts, opinions etc. regarding the lifelines available on CD?  They appear to be competitively priced unless I haven't researched enough...  Read quite a bit about the many advantages of going bare SS.
The only thing that always works on an old boat is the owner...

Bill Shreeves
s/v "Begnnings" 1987 Shoal Draft #333
M25XPB, Worton Creek, MD

Noah

I vote for bare stainless. Some are going for the no metal Dynema-type line options, something to perhaps consider. I am always a fan of having rigging (and sails) provided by a local source, to avoid measuring/fitting/customer service issues-especially if you aren't an experieced DYI-er.
1990 hull #1014, San Diego, CA,  Fin Keel,
Standard Rig

Ekutney

I replaced mine last year & went with the bare SS.  I took the old life lines to a local place, making sure I marked them for install.  I suggest using some PB Blaster to make the removal process easier.  You may also consider if adding a midship gate is of interest.  In my case I have finger piers both port & strb but if I had to do it over I would have added them.
Ed Kutney
1986 C34
S/V Grace #42 shoal keel
Universal M-25
Magothy River
Severna Park, MD

"No one could make a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little."
Edmund Burke

Mas Tequila

You might want to check out e-rigging.com, they have 3/16 7x19 316 stainless for .45 cents a foot. West Marine sells the same stuff for $2.79 a foot.

If your hardware is in good shape you can pick up some hand crimp threaded terminals studs which West Marine has for $4.88 part #12806287.

Hamilton Marine has hand crimp gate eyes for $25.99

We bought 200 feet of 3/16 for $89.90, didn't need that much but have another project.
12 threaded studs for $58.00
4 gate eyes for $103.96
We borrowed a hand crimp tool which is a bit slow but worked great. I believe those run about $50.00

Total to replace our lifelines $251.86 plus shipping costs which wasn't much.

I don't have any pictures but next time I get to the boat I'll try to remember to take some.
Positive Latitude
1986 MKI hull # 11
Frankfort, MI

Ron Hill

Bill : Don't forget to check you local rigging shop or chandlery. 
I found that if you are will to fit into their schedule (their slack time) you can get a bargain rather then you dictating a completion date.

A thought
Ron, Apache #788

Bill Shreeves

Thanks for the info guys.  Still in the research / shopping phase and I'm not going to pull the trigger on this till later in the year.  I was looking at the CD lines thinking that might be an easy route without having to pay someone else to do it and save some $ on the labor.  I'd like to replace this season since mine are looking old and worn.  No idea if they're original or not but, either way, its time for safety and appearance.  Boy, not yet a year since we bought her and so much I want / need to do..

My plate is still really full with the following projects: replace everything from the flywheel to the prop cotter pin myself.  That's becoming a bit of a longer story than I planned on and I'll share here once complete.  "Up-grade" to oberdorfer raw water pump, re-finish / re-bed exterior grab rails, eyebrows, remove & repair the push pit, replace various hoses, clean-up the boom, repair gooseneck, replace outhaul, steaming and stern nav light replacement, refinish the sole, replacing running rigging, etc..  Whew, it just keeps going.  Good thing I love the boat & sailing so much but damn, those POs!

The only thing that always works on an old boat is the owner...

Bill Shreeves
s/v "Begnnings" 1987 Shoal Draft #333
M25XPB, Worton Creek, MD

Ron Hill

Bill : You surely have a plate full, but replacing the flywheel??

The life line connections need to be swaged not crimped so keep that in mind.  You could also do what I did and have them replaced in the fall after haul out.  In fact I got a discount by giving a rigging company (Faucets in Annapolis) the life lines in the fall and letting them remake them over the winter!  I reinstalled the new ones in spring.

A few thoughts
Ron, Apache #788

Bill Shreeves

Ron,
I meant replacing everything between the flywheel & prop cotter pin.  Replacing the damper, tranny, coupling, shaft, stuffing box, cutlass & prop.  I was thinking that if I did the lifelines myself I might use swageless fittings.
The only thing that always works on an old boat is the owner...

Bill Shreeves
s/v "Begnnings" 1987 Shoal Draft #333
M25XPB, Worton Creek, MD

Mas Tequila

Bill,

Ron is correct that lifelines are swaged and not crimped. I used the term "hand crimp" because it is the term used by the manufacture of the terminals we used. C. Sherman Johnson. Their terminals are meant to be attached to to the lifelines using their tool for their fittings.

Here is a quote from their Q&A section of their website:

Q: What is a Hand Crimp Fitting?
A: Hand Crimp fittings were first designed and manufactured by C. Sherman Johnson Co., Inc. in 1969. Hand Crimp fittings are attached to the cable with a Johnson-made Hand Crimp Tool model #53-210 or #53-215. Hand Crimp fittings should not be confused with Nicopress fittings. Nicopress fittings have sleeves that are made from soft copper alloy and compress very easily. All Johnson Hand Crimp fittings are made from stainless steel and cannot be swaged, welded, glued, pressed in a vise or with vise grips, or attached to the cable by any means other than the Johnson tool #53-210, #53-215.

No matter what system you choose, make sure that you use the proper procedure and tools for those fittings.
Positive Latitude
1986 MKI hull # 11
Frankfort, MI

Indian Falls

I stripped the crappy nylon off my lifelines, dunked them in phosphoric acid ( "prep n etch" concrete cleaner at your local home depot) to remove rust and orange stains, then recovered them with white UV resistant shrink tubing available at heatshrink.com  85$ delivered for 200+ feet of the stuff.   It took working to get two layers on but as cheap as it is I can re cover 15 times the cost of new life lines.  Mind you, there was nothing wrong with my original life lines.  a little orange stain here and there does not mean the lines are rusted, corroded and ready to fail.  It was just the cover that was cracked split stained and generally looking awful. Shrink tubing is not as tough as the original cover but I have no regrets after a full season last year.
Dan & Dar
s/v Resolution, 1990 C34 997
We have enough youth: how about a fountain of "smart"?

Ron Hill

Guys : Don't be "pound foolish" with a visual inspection.

When I took my "looks good" life lines off to be replaced (because of age - 20 years) one of the threaded bow ends just came off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A thought   
Ron, Apache #788

Bill Shreeves

Great info.  I read, I think on this forum somewhere, a suggestion to test each lifeline each season before commissioning.  If I recall correctly, the suggestion was to climb a step ladder alongside the boat and grab a lifeline and pull down on it to see if will support your weight.  Haven't done that yet.
The only thing that always works on an old boat is the owner...

Bill Shreeves
s/v "Begnnings" 1987 Shoal Draft #333
M25XPB, Worton Creek, MD

Stu Jackson

#12
Quote from: Bill Shreeves on March 30, 2017, 06:59:06 PM
Great info.  I read, I think on this forum somewhere, a suggestion to test each lifeline each season before commissioning.  If I recall correctly, the suggestion was to climb a step ladder alongside the boat and grab a lifeline and pull down on it to see if will support your weight.  Haven't done that yet.

Bill,

Don't do that.

Why?  Cuz you'll do nothing but stress your stanchions and unless you've used bed it with butyl tape will damage the seal at the deck and perhaps bend a stanchion or two.

Access to the stanchion base bolts inside is possible, but all of us who have done it wish it was much easier.

Look, folks, the very term "lifeline" is absolute nonsense.  While it may be the very last thing to stop you from going over, it would be foolish to depend on them to save your life.  The only stanchions I've seen that can do that are on ships:  1" or larger tubing, like the stuff on the edges of your decks on your house.

The key is simple:  Treat the edge of your deck as the edge of a 500 foot cliff and act accordingly.

The ONLY use I ever make of my lifelines is to make an "O" with my thumb and index finger as a guide, not a purchase, as I go forward on deck past the forward shrouds until I can grab the pulpit.  Aft of the shrouds going forward I use the handhold on the outside edge of my dodger (and if you have a dodger without them you are very foolish), then to the shrouds.

Your boat, your choice. 
Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

Bill Shreeves

QuoteDon't do that.

Why?  Cuz you'll do nothing but stress your stanchions and unless you've used bed it with butyl tape will damage the seal at the deck and perhaps bend a stanchion or two.

Stu,
I was a bit leery about doing that test due to the same concerns and I really appreciate your input.  I've occasionally wondered about how literally we should take the term "lifeline" and your opinion / approach makes sense to me.  Despite how good they may be, I've never had an expectation that the 24" tall x 1" diameter SS tubes and wire will keep my 6' 225 lbs onboard should I get thrown against them in a rough sea.  I assume that's what jack lines & harnesses are for or to at least keep me from getting separated from the boat unintentionally.  Maybe a less potentially "destructive" test / due diligence would be frequent detailed inspections and a good firm tug in-line with the lifelines to see if the fittings are still reasonably secure?

Re-bedding them all with butyl and verifying or installing backing plates is a project I have slated for this summer. 
The only thing that always works on an old boat is the owner...

Bill Shreeves
s/v "Begnnings" 1987 Shoal Draft #333
M25XPB, Worton Creek, MD

Indian Falls

If you can't look at something and determine by looking and handling that it's bad or good, you should buy new lines and hope the monkey putting the ends on knows how to use the crimper as good as the first guy. 

Maybe Ron could offer an explanation why his just fell off... after only 20 years? 
Dan & Dar
s/v Resolution, 1990 C34 997
We have enough youth: how about a fountain of "smart"?