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Author Topic: Broke down - Freshwater Coolant Pump Model and Source  (Read 6196 times)

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Breakin Away

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Re: Broke down - Freshwater Coolant Pump Model and Source
« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2018, 07:58:54 AM »

Hi all, I'm making phone calls and getting lots of information. I'll post more details on my findings later, but before I can move much further I need to find the Kubota serial number on my V1305 motor. Can you give me some quick hints of where I might find it? (Haven't found this info in the Wiki.)

EDIT: I've called a local NAPA guy and he does not have a water pump corresponding to the Kubota numbers that I have (probably because Kubota changes their numbers so often.) He also said that they don't sell genuine Kubota, only NAPA-manufactured replacements. If Mike Brown could post his NAPA dealer location I'd like to give him a try. As for prices, genuine Westerbeke is over $300, and genuine Kubota is coming in around $170. I'm trying to find a brick-and-mortar that has it in stock so I can measure the impeller diameter, but so far nobody has it in stock.

As for impeller diameter, the Wb part manual makes it pretty clear that B-series motors made before 2005 have a 57 mm impeller, while after 2005 it's 70 mm. All the Kumar stuff (and similar from China) seems to reference 70 mm impeller, which could be a problem. I'll post more details on this later, as it does help to clarify the situation.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 08:13:58 AM by Breakin Away »
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rmbrown

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Re: Broke down - Freshwater Coolant Pump Model and Source
« Reply #46 on: December 27, 2018, 01:06:40 PM »

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Mike Brown
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Re: Broke down - Freshwater Coolant Pump Model and Source
« Reply #47 on: December 27, 2018, 02:51:14 PM »


As for impeller diameter, the Wb part manual makes it pretty clear that B-series motors made before 2005 have a 57 mm impeller, while after 2005 it's 70 mm. All the Kumar stuff (and similar from China) seems to reference 70 mm impeller, which could be a problem. I'll post more details on this later, as it does help to clarify the situation.


Ok so that makes it a little easier to find the correct Kb part no. In the Kb parts manual that I posted on the wiki, the p/n listed for the earlier (or later) serial number engines determines the pump and p/n that you need pre- (or post) 2005.

I have found excellent parts info/support at Messicks- brick/mortar.

Remember the gasket too!

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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
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Breakin Away

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Re: Broke down - Freshwater Coolant Pump Model and Source
« Reply #48 on: December 28, 2018, 08:05:20 AM »

More phone calls, more information on possible sources and part numbers. I'll post a summary. However, my pump is now leaking quite a bit faster, and I need to pull it ASAP so I can verify impeller size and order the replacement.

Can I get a quick recommendation on how to draw down the coolant below the pump level? Do I pull the cap and pump it out the manifold? Pull the large hose from the pump and quickly position a cup to catch the coolant that comes out? Open the petcock on the HX and drain it there? I'm sure that someone who has done this has some suggestions of how best to do this.

For now, I'm only interested in draining enough to get the level below the pump. (I'll do a full flush later.) Any idea about how much coolant I need to remove to get it to that level?
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Stu Jackson

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Re: Broke down - Freshwater Coolant Pump Model and Source
« Reply #49 on: December 28, 2018, 08:10:28 AM »

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Can I get a quick recommendation on how to draw down the coolant below the pump level? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Here's how on an M25:

Engine Overheating 101 - How to Burp Your Engine (Reply #6)  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4518.msg26462.html#msg26462
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Re: Broke down - Freshwater Coolant Pump Model and Source
« Reply #50 on: December 28, 2018, 09:02:52 AM »

Ck the coolant capacity on the 4 cyl ( service manual), I’d guess that draining half is plenty.  Is the petcock on the Hx,  on the seawater or coolant (probably) side?  Dunno.

I can easily drain coolant pulling the hose off the Hx, but my access may be way easier than yours.  I have also drained using the engine petcock (which Ron doesn’t like) but I’ve never had so much as a drip from it.

I have a little multipurpose 12v pump - thx for the idea of pumping out @@ the manifold - that should work well for me also.

I have a nice place to disconnect/drain the lower hose, but I don’t think the B series is as convenient.  Pic to follow.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 09:06:10 AM by KWKloeber »
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
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Breakin Away

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Re: Broke down - Freshwater Coolant Pump Model and Source
« Reply #51 on: December 30, 2018, 08:26:44 PM »

More phone calls, more information on possible sources and part numbers. I'll post a summary...
I wrote up my research on freshwater pumps for B-series motors. I put it in a different thread which seems more suited to the specific issues of Universal's B-series motors. I'll also put a link in the wiki:

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,9461.msg77379.html#msg77379

EDIT: Hmmm, I could have sworn that I read somewhere that we could all edit the Tech Wiki, but darn if I can figure out how.

Someone please add the above link to the Diesel Engine wiki next to "FRESHWATER COOLANT PUMP Parts # and Sources".

Also, while you are at it, I would appreciate correcting the line at the top of the page  that says "M-30, a 4-cylinder producing 28hp, became an optional engine about the same time and is standard in the Mark II." There are a number of MkII boats that have M35B standard, and it's not even mentioned on the page, which means it does not come up in a search. FYI, the tech manual says that the M35B produces 35 HP and M25XPB generates 28 HP.

In general, this text on the Diesel Engine page seems to neglect B-series motors and thus looks like it's in sore need of updating. I'm happy to help, but you guys need to provide clarity on how members can edit these pages. Right now "Help with logging in" tells me "To create an account, select "Log in" (top right of page) then "Create account", but there is no such link on the login page. So maybe some revisions to the instructions are in order. Thanks!
« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 08:55:22 AM by Breakin Away »
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KWKloeber

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Re: Broke down - Freshwater Coolant Pump Model and Source
« Reply #52 on: December 30, 2018, 11:38:11 PM »

WOW!  Super comprehensive and SUPER helpful.

On the wiki, are you using the WordPress interface or the original wiki page (at the bottom of the WordPress page you click the link to edit the source wiki page)

Once on the mediawiki platform, you register as a user, “edit” at the top of page link, try to figure out the correct way to compose a link using wiki markup text, and instantly forget how afterward cuz it’s a strange language.

I typically find one that works and displays how I prefer, and copy/paste/edit the link. You’re just throwing down a link instead of creating a new page, so not a big deal. You’ll probably use the “external link” format. See the Help button at the top of editing - it opens a help guide on links, formatting headings, etc.

If you do post any media (pic, pdf, etc) i always do it as an external rather than internal link. If you do that, or need any other help, email me and I’ll walk you thru it.

-k


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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Breakin Away

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Re: Broke down - Freshwater Coolant Pump Model and Source
« Reply #53 on: December 31, 2018, 08:58:22 AM »

I'll go in and try to edit the wiki again when I have a few more minutes.

For now, one quick question in preparation for when my new freshwater pump arrives: Is a gasket sealant recommended for the freshwater pump, and if so, what brand/type? I thought I had found a page on this site that mentioned it, but it got lost in the 100+ pages I read getting info on pump specs. Thanks!
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KWKloeber

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Re: Broke down - Freshwater Coolant Pump Model and Source
« Reply #54 on: December 31, 2018, 01:01:45 PM »

IIWMP I’d follow whatever the B series Service Manual says. They are written by Kb and personalized for the marine engine by Wb.
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Breakin Away

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Re: Broke down - Freshwater Coolant Pump Model and Source
« Reply #55 on: January 04, 2019, 08:01:27 PM »

FWIW, both Westerbeke and Kubota manuals say to use a thin coat of sealant over the gasket. They recommend Three Bond 1215 or similar. The 1215 was coming up over $50, so I opted for the "or similar". I chose Permatex 22071 Water Pump and Thermostat Gasket Maker, which has the needed thermal spec and is optimized for glycol resistance. This is capable of replacing the gasket entirely, but I used it as a dressing with the thinnest possible coat on both sides of the gasket.

Interestingly, I stumbled across some instructions on Aisin's website (maker of the old Universal water pump that I pulled out) that said not to use gasket sealer. Go figure.

I installed the new Kubota pump (OEMed by TBK) today (before seeing Aisin's warning). I'm waiting a day or so for the gasket dressing to cure fully before filling the air pocket with coolant.
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Breakin Away

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Re: Broke down - Freshwater Coolant Pump Model and Source
« Reply #56 on: January 04, 2019, 08:28:26 PM »

Once on the mediawiki platform, you register as a user
I did this, and I now have a mediawiki account that I'm logged in to.

“edit” at the top of page link
I don't have an "edit" link. I do have a "View Source" link at the top of the page. When I click it, it says:

Quote
You do not have permission to edit this page, for the following reason:

The action you have requested is limited to users in the group: Users.
Also, at the top of the page, it has a link that says "Log in", which is odd, because I'm already logged in on the mediawiki site. When I click the "Log in" link, I am taken to another page that asks me to enter login credentials, but neither my mediawiki credentials nor my C34 website credentials work.

Are you sure that we're all allowed to edit the wiki? Why am I the only one who seems to have this problem?

Could someone who has edit privileges for the wiki please create a page explaining, in detail, how a new user can set up an account and log in? Our wiki doesn't seem to allow edits unless you're on some special "User" list. And this instruction definitely does not seem to work, since it will not accept my login credentials:

Quote
Anyone may read the topics. If you wish to add content to the wiki you must log in. Use the same user name and password that you use to access the forum.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 08:51:25 PM by Breakin Away »
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Stu Jackson

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Re: Broke down - Freshwater Coolant Pump Model and Source
« Reply #57 on: January 04, 2019, 09:57:35 PM »

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Could someone who has edit privileges for the wiki please create a page explaining, in detail, how a new user can set up an account and log in? Our wiki doesn't seem to allow edits unless you're on some special "User" list. And this instruction definitely does not seem to work, since it will not accept my login credentials:

Quote
Anyone may read the topics. If you wish to add content to the wiki you must log in. Use the same user name and password that you use to access the forum.

You have answered your own question.

Forget mediawiki, KISS.

1.  Go to the wiki, usually from the link at the top of this page, or from the home page.

2.  Find any wiki page.  Top right of the page, Edit.  Go to the bottom of the Wordpress page you're on, will say To Edit original, click on that link.

3.  To REPEAT [sorry about the yelling:D]:  Use the same user name and password that you use to access the forum.

4.  Edit or create, SAVE button at the bottom of the page.

The only "trick" is to go from the Wordpress page to the original wiki page, which it suggests that you do when you scroll to the bottom of any WP page.

There are no wiki editor "privileges," whoever is on the forum can edit or create wiki pages.

I sincerely apologize for any confusion.  A few years ago we moved the original wiki pages to Wordpress for a number of reasons, few of which saw their intended fruition because the individual who did so much work in a helpful manner sold her C34. 

In any event, it is only one click more than it had ever been.

Thanks for bringing up the issues you had.  Hope this solves them, if not, just keep asking.



« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 10:00:40 PM by Stu Jackson »
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Re: Broke down - Freshwater Coolant Pump Model and Source
« Reply #58 on: January 04, 2019, 10:09:04 PM »

Stu

Did that process change at some point?

I swear that when I created my C34 wiki account that it was a separate registration/credentials (a "create account" link) after registering for the forum? (even tho I did use the same sign-on and password)  Or am I jist CRS?

-k
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 10:09:45 PM by KWKloeber »
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

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Re: Broke down - Freshwater Coolant Pump Model and Source
« Reply #59 on: January 04, 2019, 10:24:04 PM »

I tried Stu's method again, which was the same thing I had already done before trying Ken's method. Since this is the third time I've tried the same thing, I also decided to yell at my computer.

It didn't work.

Since you clearly don't believe me, I've attached screenshots. I think you have a problem, and hope you come to realize it.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 10:26:09 PM by Breakin Away »
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