GFI Tripping

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Fuzzy

Ken:
Yes, the GFI trips if or if not the main ac breaker is on or off.
The GFI did not trip when the extension cord was plugged directly into an electric heater.
Larry
Larry G. Trumble
East Jordan, MI
Katarina
1987 #475

KWKloeber

#16
Quote from: Fuzzy on November 05, 2014, 04:35:18 PM
Ken:
Yes, the GFI trips if or if not the main ac breaker is on or off.
The GFI did not trip when the extension cord was plugged directly into an electric heater.
Larry

Larry,

Ok, so it seems that the unidentified leakage is somewhere between the end of your extension cord, and the tail end of the main breaker, but not past the main breaker.


So what you need to do is start eliminating components in the chain, beginning with one end or the other (the easiest one.)
For instance,
Does she trip when you plug the adapter in (but not the adapter into the boat?) (bad adapter) 
Might try a different adapter if you can borrow one, just to eliminate that being the issue.
Disconnect the inlet cable from the main breaker (with power disconnected! tape or wire nut the wire ends)
Disconnect the cable from the back of the inlet.

That way you just keep narrowing it down to one component that is bad. 
Hopefully it IS ONE - it gets frustrating when there's multiple causes and it spins you in circles trying to narrow one down.

Update us!

Ken K
Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Ralph Masters

The GFI plug in our head started tripping for no apparent reason a couple months back.  I replaced with a new one and it hasn't tripped since.  Problem could be old equipment.

Ralph
Ralph Masters
Ciao Bella
San Diego
Hull 367, 1987

Noah

Catalina's wiring solutions weren't always the best, nor logical (at least on my 1990). The aft cabin outlet was connected/protected by the GFI in the head but the outlet in the Galley was not protected at all!? I ended up installing new GFIs on ALL outlets. That way if the GFI ever trips I have a better idea of where the source of the cause might be.
1990 hull #1014, San Diego, CA,  Fin Keel,
Standard Rig

Stu Jackson

On the Mark Is, the manual wiring diagram for the outlets was installed as shown.  There are two wiring runs:  1)  nav station to head;  2)  V berth to galley to aft cabin.  I put a GFCI in the head with an outdoor cover on it, and put the second GFCI in the V berth.  Thus, the only non-GFCI is the nav station.  I could have put a GFCI in the nav station, but that would have required a new teak cover on the receptacle, so I didn't.

Check the manual first, then check what's there in the field (on your boat).
Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

KWKloeber

Stu,

I eliminated 2 poorly located and  added 10 receptacles to my 30.  In the teak areas, I just trimmed out the center of the teak duplex covers to fit the rectangular GFI receptacles.

Ken.
Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Ron Hill

#21
Guys : If you check your owners manuals here's what I believe you'll find:

1986 +1987 C34s there are two circuits as Stu describes.
1988 and subsequent C34s there is one circuit with the GFI receptacle in the first outlet at the nav table!!

A thought
Ron, Apache #788

dfloeter

Resurrecting an older topic as I think my question may dovetail nicely with this discussion.

We have owned this boat but a year  and I am still working through the wire issues left by the PO.    This current issue has to do with the GFI not functioning.   After replacing all the Romex the PO had installed when he added outlets on both sides and forward I had power at all these outlets.   Next came the GFI that was not functioning.     Upon pulling the GFI from it's box I found the feed  wire attachment screw sheared in it's hole and all hot wires run to one load terminal.   This explained why the GFI Was not working so I replaced the GFI with a new one.    

Now as soon as I plug something into the starboard outlet leg and turn it on the GFI trips.   The port side works properly so I figure the GFI is not at fault.    With the starboard side hot and common wires disconnected from the GFI with only the ground still on, the GFI will trip when I touch either white or black to it's appropriate terminal.    

I have checked all outlets with an outlet tester and they all test properly.   I have also visually inspected the outlets and all looks right.   The boat is connected to shore power on land via a GFI outlet and adapters to the 30A inlet on the stern.  

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Dietrich Floeter
Traverse City MI
1996 Catalina 34 TR WK #1317
Universal M35A
Rocna 20

KWKloeber

#23
Quote from: dfloeter on March 23, 2015, 08:10:27 AM

#1
Now as soon as I plug something into the starboard outlet leg and turn it on the GFI trips.  
#2
With the starboard side hot and common wires disconnected from the GFI with only the ground still on, the GFI will trip when I touch either white or black to it's appropriate terminal.    

#1 and #2 appear to be at odds --
Does the gfci trip with all wires connected and no load applied (#2) , or only when there's a load applied (#1)?  
Are you saying that you had the wires disconnected, a load applied downstream, and then touched the hot or neutral to the gfci -- and it trips?

I would first disconnect the port side downwire feed to remove it from the equation.
Then isolate the 1st downwire outlet (remove the downwire feed from #1 to #2) and see if gfci still trips. Work downstream as needed to see if you can find what's/location that's tripping it on the stbd side.

I wouldn't automatically rule out the gfci until you do a little more isolation.

You could also isolate the two sides (feed the stb side straight thru from the power-in side of the gfci, and install a gfci in 1st outlet on stbd) and see what develops?


Ken
Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

dfloeter

The GFI tripped when all wires were connected to it properly and a load was applied to any of the starboard outlets.    When I touched the wire to the GFI and it tripped there was no load on the circuit.   Ken, I will do as you suggest and disconnect the port side from the GFI and reconnect the starboard.   I will also back down the outlets and start disconnecting from the farthest out ending at the galley which was the only original outlet in the string with the micro wave.   I will have to check the aft cabin for more outlets.    Rereading your suggestions, do you mean to run a loose jumper from the GFI to the various outlets? 
Dietrich Floeter
Traverse City MI
1996 Catalina 34 TR WK #1317
Universal M35A
Rocna 20

Mike and Joanne Stimmler


Could you have something connected to the starboard leg that is hard wired without a plug?

Mike
Mike and Joanne Stimmler
Former owner of Calerpitter
'89 Tall Rig Fin keel #940
San Diego/Mission Bay
mjstimmler@cox.net

dfloeter

In the end I found a mystery wire (12-3 boat wire) leading forward from the starboard hanging locker up in the V-berth.   When rewiring the outlets I installed a terminal block in the locker which is fed by a 12-3 running from the nav station GFI.   The three outlets on starboard are then fed from this terminal block.  After disconnecting the common (white) wire from this terminal block  the problem has evaporated and all outlets test normal and the GFI functions as expected.   Later today I will track down the end of the mystery wire.   

What I have discovered is the lack of a GFI on the independently wired outlets in the galley and aft cabin.   This is the original circuit off the breaker on the panel logically labeled outlets.   I am presuming the breaker will not function as a GFI.   Changing the galley receptacle to a GFI I think should cover both of those.

On to the next curious situation, whatever that may be.   Thanks for the advice.
Dietrich Floeter
Traverse City MI
1996 Catalina 34 TR WK #1317
Universal M35A
Rocna 20

KWKloeber

Quote from: dfloeter on March 24, 2015, 06:47:31 AM
In the end I found a mystery wire (12-3 boat wire) leading forward from the starboard hanging locker up in the V-berth.   When rewiring the outlets I installed a terminal block in the locker which is fed by a 12-3 running from the nav station GFI.   The three outlets on starboard are then fed from this terminal block.  After disconnecting the common (white) wire from this terminal block  the problem has evaporated and all outlets test normal and the GFI functions as expected.   Later today I will track down the end of the mystery wire.   

What I have discovered is the lack of a GFI on the independently wired outlets in the galley and aft cabin.   This is the original circuit off the breaker on the panel logically labeled outlets.   I am presuming the breaker will not function as a GFI.   Changing the galley receptacle to a GFI I think should cover both of those.

On to the next curious situation, whatever that may be.   Thanks for the advice.

I presume that are using a tester that not only checks polarity, but also w/ a button that tests the gfci?

Are you saying that the outlets fed by that terminal block tests normally with only the hot and ground connected?  If so, something's amiss.


And to your earlier question and re: the aft unprotected outlets..

I'm probably telling you what you already know, but others' edification..... There's two ways you can feed from an installed gfci outlet --

The first is to wire it in parallel and simply loop onto the next outlet (this provides no gfci protection downstream.)  To do this you would use the "line" terminals to continue downstream.

The other way is to wire it in series to provide protection downstream. For that you run from the "load" terminals to the next outlet. So what I was suggesting previously, was to power the apparently errant stbd outlets from the "line" side of the gfci, and then use another gfc as the next outlet downstream.

Ken
Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

dfloeter

The testing I am using is a simple plug in showing polarity and any open wires without a switch to test a GFI.    The thing is yellow with three less on the top where two yellows shows a good outlet.

My now protected outlets are wired off the GFI load terminals but initially were not.   I will be doing as you suggest with the galley outlet and running the aft cabin outlet of the load side of that GFI.   

Thanks again Ken.   You will be receiving mail from me any day now.
Dietrich Floeter
Traverse City MI
1996 Catalina 34 TR WK #1317
Universal M35A
Rocna 20

KWKloeber

Quote from: dfloeter on March 24, 2015, 07:56:41 AM
The testing I am using is a simple plug in showing polarity and any open wires without a switch to test a GFI.    The thing is yellow with three less on the top where two yellows shows a good outlet.

My now protected outlets are wired off the GFI load terminals but initially were not.   I will be doing as you suggest with the galley outlet and running the aft cabin outlet of the load side of that GFI.   

Thanks again Ken.   You will be receiving mail from me any day now.

My most recent tester has the gfci addition - a button that trips it (if the gfci is working properly).  Maybe a buck or two more than the yellow ones.
I think I got it at Lowe's, though I also saw it later at Wally.
http://i5.walmartimages.com/dfw/dce07b8c-4cf3/k2-_5cd12b0e-3ff9-4302-af6c-f4dd6771ae34.v1.jpg


Good, I love mystery mail!

Cheers,
ken
Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain