Forward Exterior Grab Rails Attachment

[Mike McDonald]

Hi all,
Probably been asked before, but wondering if it would be dangerous to eliminate the bolts and use screws from below for all positions. I noticed that the short grab rails above the companion way are screwed from below only. I would likely fill the existing bolt holes with epoxy and then drill and screw from below.
I would appreciate your thoughts on this. Thanks.
Mike...

[Ron Hill]

Mike : Hard to answer your question as I know of NO handles above the companionway?
 
C34s have handles on each side going up the companionway steps.

[Les Luzar]

Mike,
Yes there are two small hand rails under my dodger to the outside of my halyard winches. Last year I removed them to take home to varnish, and I too noticed that these small handrails were only screwed. I thought that it may be because they are so small and in my case they are only decorative, because they are under my dodger. Like Ron said, I forget that they are even there most of the time.  I too don't know how to answer your question other than why would you not want your on deck hand rails secured with bolts. I personally feel that having  bolts makes me feel more secure when holding on to them when on the deck. I for one would not want those deck hand rails to fail. So I would opt to keep the bolts where they are. Why make the change? The bolts allow your to torque down the deck hand rails if necessary, for security and leak prevention. Screws may be much harder to do so, and perhaps may get stripped easier (screw heads or the wood). It seems to me it is not an improvement to change to all screws.  Just a thought!

[Stu Jackson]

Les is right.  If you have a dodger, forget about it, 'cuz you'll never get there to stress them.  If you don't, sure, do what they did with every second or third support for the main long ones along the cabintop.  And you're right, this has never come up before.  Great forum, always something NEW! 

[Mike McDonald]

Thanks for the feedback.
Ron, sorry I wasn't more clear about the location of the short grab rails. Les is right, I was referring to the one's outboard of the hatch cover under the dodger.
After removing the forward grab rails, some of the bolts were not tight in the holes. Some of the bungs were very thin due to sanding over the years I assume. My thought was to eliminate the bolts, epoxy the holes, put in new bungs (after drilling the bung holes a little deeper), complete the re-finishing and then mount with long screws from below. I thought that with 12 attachment points, replacing the 5 bolts on each side would be strong enough. One of my friends has an Island Packet with grab rails that are screwed down through the top, which is what gave me the idea.
If I stick with the bolts, what would you recommend putting on the bolt head to secure it in the hole before putting the bung in. It looks like it may have had some sort of bedding compound in there originally.
As always, I appreciate all of the great feedback from the forum members.
Mike...

[mregan]

Mike
I just removed my handrails to re-finish.  I just screwed in the shorter ones and they tend to have a little rock to them even though the screws are snug.  Not too concerned since they are covered by the dodger. 
On the longer rails, I put a little bit of epoxy under the bolt heads then let them set. Put new bungs in the top and re-finished the rails at home.  When I re-installed, I was able to tighten the nuts below with having to have a second person above holding the bolt from spinning.  Also prevents having to finish the Cetol on the boat.  If your bungs are really thin, you should be able to drill the hole down a little bit and sink the bolts in more.  Some of my bungs are only 1/4" thick.  They fit pretty tightly so you shouldn't have a problem once you bang them in and sand them down.
When I re-installed, I slightly countersunk the screw/bolt hole opening in the top of the deck.  Then put some butyl gasket around the bolts and a small blob of butyl in the screw hole.   When you tighten the bolts the butyl will fill in the countersink and give you a good seal.  Same when you insert the screws.
I like having the bolts.  On my old C-30 the handrails were only screwed in from below.  The rails never moved but they always had a slight rock to them.

[Ron Hill]

Mike : The two teak hand rails under a dodger are unusable as hand holds!!

Why not just remove them and fill the hole with a bolt with a finishing washer (a nut and of course caulk)??

A thought

[Mike McDonald]

Matt, thanks for taking the time to describe your process for dealing with the grab rails. Sounds like a great plan. I'll take your suggestions.
Ron,
I'll also think about removing the short grab rails in the future. One less thing to have to finish. Thanks.
Mike...

[mregan]

I was thinking of getting rid of the short grab rails since I don't use them but after pulling them off, the gel coat under the contact points is a darker color than the rest of the surrounding area.  Hasn't been dulled from 28 years of sun.  Thought it would look odd having 3 dark spots on the cabin top so I re-finished the rails & re-installed.  They are small and pretty quick to sand down.  It's the big rails which are a pain to strip and re-finish.

[Mike McDonald]

Good point Matt.  Thanks.
Mike...

[Les Luzar]

On those short hand rails under the dodger, when you remove them for varnish touch up, re-install them with a O-ring rubber washer around each screw instead of buytl tape/ or other sealant. The rubber washer keeps any water out, and allows for quick removal and installation for varnishing upkeep. And since these hand rails are under the dodger, they are not exposed to a lot of water. And even if they are, the rubber washer works like sealant.  I like to take home whatever teak I can to varnish and this method makes the job easier since there is no scraping of old butyl or sealant. Just a thought.

[Mike McDonald]

Good idea, Les.  Thanks.
Mike...

[Paulus]

Replaced my hand rails 5 yrs ago.  Could not find the long ones and so I replaced them with 4' sections.  Same footprint.  Drilled out the holes and filled them with epoxy.  Drilled the out in the spring to put the new hand rails on.  I screwed the hand rails from the inside, using larger screws on each end.  Very pleased but it takes 2 people, one to hold the hand rail tight to deck and the other working inside.  No rocking motion.
Paul

split rails flix

[Mike McDonald]

Paul,
Thanks for the response and the photo.  Looks great! Never would have thought of using the shorter rails.  I may do that if I have to replace mine entirely in the future.  Do you recall where you bought the rails from?
Mike.....

[Les Luzar]

Mike,
If you ever have to replace your cabin top rails, consider stainless steel hand rails. Five C-34's on my gangway have converted to this and they look great and require no maintenance. Just a thought...