One problem leads to another... (and back again)

[Kevin Henderson]

 I have had the nagging problem of having my water pressure pump coming on ever so infrequently.  Not a major problem but a simple annoyance since I know I have a small leak somewhere in my fresh water line. It's been coupled with the accompanying leak from the over pressure relief valve on the hot water heater.  I have replaced the check valve in the hot water line and have replaced some hoses.  I have secured down the fresh water fill caps and ensured my faucets are closed securely... and still my pump comes on intermitted.

And now the rest of the story....

Knowing that I have a small fresh water leak I knew I would have a little water in the bilge.  (I'm a dry bilge kinda guy and having any water in there drives me nuts).  Pulling up the boards in the cabin I looked down and saw what I thought to be more water than there should be.  Sticking my trusty finger into the water and giving it a taste I determined the water to be "slightly salty"     That changed things for me.  I opened up the engine compartment to take a look at my shaft packing gland and found the source of my saltwater leak; a small pool of water beneath the coupling.  The packing gland simply needs to be adjusted... easy fix.    Emptying the "garage" and removing the access boards I get in there with my trusty wrench and did the minor adjustment on the packing gland and no more leak.  I figured while I'm down there, and since I already have water pooled up, Now is a good time to check/replace my engine zinc... again... easy fix.  I back out the threaded nut holding the zinc and to my surprise... there was nothing else!    I thought perhaps the zinc had dissolved but knowing it hadn't been that long ago, I had a suspicion that the old zinc broke off inside the heat exchanger.  Figuring I would tackle that job next weekend, I started to replace the old zinc with a new one.  Unfortunately, the new zinc would not fit inside... sure enough; the old zinc was blocking the hole and would not allow the new zinc to fit inside.    At this point it's late in the afternoon and I could easily have simply replaced the threaded bolt and shut things up and went home... but it was nagging at me that the zinc was up there inside... tormenting me.    I knew what I had to do next.  I opened up the engine compartment and dug into the heat exchanger and removed the cover and gasket and sure enough there was my corroded zinc... taunting me!    I could feel it but I could not see it... That is one very difficult location to access.  After several failed attempts, I did my contortion act and crawled and twisted my way from the aft cabin so I could reach up with a screwdriver into the threaded hole and with another hand wiggle the zinc around with my finger.  Finally, like extracting a tooth... I had the little corroded zinc bit in my hand... Success!   I cut a new gasket and replaced the HX cover and inserted the new zinc in buttoned everything up.  I started the engine and let it run for a while as I checked for any signs of leaks from the HX gasket, zinc and the shaft packing gland.  All dry.    Finally after packing all of the contents back into the garage and cleaning up my mess, it was beer thirty.  
Feeling full with my success... It dawned on me...      I still hadn't fixed my freshwater leaking problem...  
Any ideas?

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

Kevin, try disconnecting the water outlet of the pump and connect a short piece of hose woth a plug on the end and see if you still get the intermittant running. You may not have a leak at all but a bad pressure switch in the pump. I once spent hours looking for a leak that I didn't have. Finally replaced the pump, problem solved.

Mike

[Ron Hill]

Kevin : I've written this same thing up before, but let me expand on Mike's post.
 
Get a 5/8" male threaded nylon adapter with a 5/8" hose barb on the other end and screw it into the pressure relief valve.  Then take a short 8"? piece of 5/8" hose and curve it down into the bilge.  Roll up a short piece of paper towel and stick it in the end of that piece of hose.  Check to see if it gets wet or stays dry!!

If it gets wet then replace the pressure relief valve.  As mentioned before I have never had any luck with a pressure relief valve once it leaks - especially in a old hot water heater.  Pieces of crud get in the valve and it will never really reseal again.  
It's a 150 psi and 200F relief valve with a 1/2" pipe thread.  

Also if the PRV leaks it just might be the 110V AC thermostat that's causing the more than 200F to happen - unless your engine is getting hotter than 200 degrees!!

A bunch of thoughts.

[prh77]

I had the same problem, pump cycled even with the outlet sealed with a short piece of hose and a bolt. Have lived with it for 2 years, on some trips it " fixes " it's self and will not cycle for hours, and on others it run briefly every 20 minutes or so. Other that is still works great.

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

The only problem with "living with it" is that if at some later time, you really do have a leak, you won't know about it.

[Ed Shankle]

Do you have a cockpit shower? I have an occasional cycling going on and found that my shower has a slight leak. That water would never make it to the bilge.
Haven't fixed it yet. The hardware is pretty chinzy, so I'm not surprised it leaks! I'll improve the quality of the replacement parts.

Ed

[prh77]

The only leak in my case is an internal one in the pump.

[Indian Falls]

Your water pump has to have an internal check valve, if it did not your water pressure would go away as soon as the pump stopped.  If this check valve leaks back to your water tank slowly then the pump will kick on and restore the pressure to where the off switch is happy again.  You could prove this by dead heading your water pump with 2 feet of water hose, leaving the air in it.  If your pump's check valve leaks, this will oscillate on off on off at what ever the leak rate determines the frequency.   The air in the line allows a bit of "spring", with out it your pump might stutter due to there being no "volume of water and hose in the system".  2 feet of hose won't expand like the 30 or so feet that are in the system.  The other thing I would do is take your pump apart and see if you have shreds of teflon tape or some other debris in the pump check valve causing the pressure loss that runs the pump.

On another note, I added a 30'' piece of 3'' pvc pipe capped on both ends and drilled with a hose barb fitting. 
It lays right next to the starboard water tank and tee's into the line leaving the water pump.  This allows trickle of faucets and nightly use without that dang pump running everytime you touch a faucet.  Where I'm at, I doubt it will waterlog in 5 to 6 months of our boating season.  But I'll let you know.

[Kevin Henderson]

I've been meaning to update the progress on this issue for some time but I've been kind of busy lately.  I actually completed some of these things over the summer. So here goes:

I ordered a new pressure relief valve for the Hot Water heater and installed.  The new valve went on easily and sure enough, solved the problem of water dripping from the valve on the hot water heater was a very simple and straight forward fix.  After replacing the valve, I turned on the pressure and the heater and let things run their course over a couple weekends.  The valve was holding perfectly and I was quite happy.  However... I still had this nagging little drip of fresh water coming into the after most bilge compartment and it was driving me crazy.  It was about this time that I posted a thread about cutting some access holes under the sole in the galley to see what in the world is going on down there.  Instead I grabbed my little "point and shoot" camera and started snapping away.  The first photo revealed what can be seen is 2 of my bilge hoses and also two very old and slimy fresh water hoses running aft to the head from the galley.  If you notice in the photo you can see a little rivulet of water coming from somewhere back aft.  This was the source of my never ending pain.  All of the hoses in the head looked secure but I knew I needed to replace the hoses so I went ahead with replacement.  In doing so I had one of those "Ah Hah!!" moments when I finally found the true culprit.  It seemed that the PO did not have quite enough hose to go all the way back aft to the head so he decided to use a little connector and some hose clamps.  Over time and with vibration being so close to the engine, the leak was started.  The final picture shows the same area under the sole except with new hoses running aft into the head.  Remnants of the little river can still be seen. Happy to report that the leak is no more :-)   

[Kevin Henderson]

And the next couple pics:

[Joe Holmes]

Well done. I don't know about everyone else but each time I resolve one of these nagging issues I feel worthy of a Nobel Prize. Kinda like a rock star. For a few minutes at least. Then I'll forget that the sliding hatch cover is closed, hit my head for the three hundredth time, and that puts everything into perspective again.

Only 5 months til launch! 

[Ron Hill]

Kevin : Too bad you didn't see my posts ( & Mainsheet tech note article) that I rerouted the water hoses to the head sink from the water heater area and got them out of the engine compartment.  Not too sure why Catalina had them pop up in the engine compartment and then go around the corner? - I just went direct under the flooring and came out in under the head sink.

I also found that not using PVC hose, eliminated the smelly head water smell.

A thought