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Author Topic: Fuel issue  (Read 15040 times)

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Lance Jones

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Fuel issue
« on: August 24, 2013, 09:44:33 AM »

Ok, read all the bleeding posts. BTW, the link to the bleeding process doesn't work. My issue:
Returning under power from a quick run to pump out.
RPM started dropping and then quit.
Tried restart and it rumbled for a minute and quit again.
When I sailed back to the dock, I replaced the primary and secondary fuel filters (Have done this before).
Secondary (Racor): Opened vent at top of filter. Turned on pump. Let run for a few minutes. Closed vent.
Primary: Opened bleed bolt on top of filter. Ran pump until fuel came out.
Opened injector bleed knob. Ran pump. No fuel emerged from bleeder. Closed valve and tried starting. Nothing happened. Repeated, repeated, repeated.

Any ideas? Thanks in advance.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 12:25:43 PM by Lance Jones »
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Lance Jones
1988  C-34 Kitty's Cat
S/N 622

Stu Jackson

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2013, 10:29:02 AM »

The link to Bleeding 101 is this and it worked for me:

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6377.0.html

No fuel should ever come out from the knurled knob.

We have always stressed that when doing two things on a boat, do one, check to make sure it works, then do the second, or else you won't know what may have gone wrong.

It sounds like you've done the right things, but still have air in the fuel system.

I never crack the vent on the Racor, which, BTW, is the primary, the engine mounted filter is the secondary.  Doing so could introduce, not eliminate, air in the system.  I only crack the bolt on the top of the secondary filter, as discussed in Bleeding 101.

Once Ken Heyman, our Bleeding Guru, reported that he'd purchased a Racor replacement filter that had a wonky top, so check that as well as the replacement O rings, which should also have been lightly coated with diesel fuel before tightening.

When in doubt, start over.  Good luck.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 10:31:05 AM by Stu Jackson »
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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Steve Wormsbecher

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2013, 10:30:30 AM »

Hey Lance.

Not sure where you are looking to see fuel come out when you open the injector bleed knob? (I was posting at the exact same time as Stu)

When you run the pump with that injector bleed knob open does your pump dramatically increase it's clicking rate?

Have you let the pump run in that condition for at least a few minutes? then closed it off before attempting a start?  (when my motor sits for a week or so I always seem to have to bleed like that for 20-30 seconds before I get a good start)

It sounds like you know what you're doing and the fact that the engine failed out of the blue (not just after a filter change) the pessimist in me might consider the problem is not air, rather a clogged injector, or completely clogged air filter (although that is not very likely as I'm sure you've already had a look at that).
How bad were your filters, any breaks in the elements?

Completely clogged exhaust may have the same symptoms, just don't know how that would happen.

I also ensure I give the glow plugs another 10-15 second shot before every start attempt; they seem to cool quite a bit.

Lastly, after repeated start attempts, I'm sure you're emptying that water muffler.

I look forward to other's suggestions.

Good luck.

Steve

« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 10:32:31 AM by Steve Wormsbecher »
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Lance Jones

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2013, 10:57:27 AM »

Thanks all.
Stu, I was using the link in an older post. Yours worked fine - thanks.
Steve, checked and emptied everything you suggested.
When knob is opened, the pump picks up and when closed, drops back.

Still not starting.
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Lance Jones
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Stu Jackson

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2013, 11:21:42 AM »

How long are you leaving the knurled knob open?
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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Lance Jones

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2013, 11:24:39 AM »

A minute or so...
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Lance Jones
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Stu Jackson

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2013, 11:54:36 AM »

Steve wrote:  Have you let the pump run in that condition for at least a few minutes? then closed it off before attempting a start? 

That's good advice.

I follow the Bleeding 101 links when we do ours.  Run the pump with the knurled knob cracked for at least a half a minute, then close it.  If the pump ticking remains high, open it again and leave it open longer.

It may take some time to purge all the air out, 'specially with the primary vent you opened earlier.

Good luck.
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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Lance Jones

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2013, 12:01:42 PM »

Understand.
However, after letting pump run, I close the valve and the pump returns to its normal rate.
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Lance Jones
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Ron Hill

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2013, 12:41:33 PM »

Lance : Sounds as though you are doing the re-bleeding thing right, but the fact that the engine stopped "out of the blue" bothers me.

The slow and fast ticking of the electric fuel pump seem to indicate that fuel should be flowing, but just to make sure try this:  (reroute the returning fuel from the tank into a bucket)
Take a 2 ft piece of 1/4" fuel line and put it in a bucket.  Disconnect the return fuel line from the metal "holder/tube" on the back starboard side of the engine and attach the 2 ft line to that tube coming from the aft injector.
Turn on the ignition so the fuel pump is activated and make sure the knurled knob is open and you should see fuel coming from the hose into the bucket.
This is just a final check to make sure that fuel is really moving thru your system!!

I'm sure that you have removed the screen from the fuel pickup tube in the fuel tank. (see critical updates)

A few thoughts    
« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 05:12:49 PM by Ron Hill »
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Lance Jones

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2013, 12:43:51 PM »

Actually Ron, I have not removed that screen. I'll read and follow up. Also, will go get the hose you suggested. Thanks!
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Lance Jones
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Lance Jones

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2013, 04:25:22 PM »

New primary had a lot of water in it already.
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Lance Jones
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Ted Pounds

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2013, 05:39:26 PM »

Leaky fuel cap???
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Ted Pounds
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Lance Jones

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2013, 05:42:50 PM »

When I put new fuel in this afternoon, cap was kind of loose and we have had a load of rain.

Any suggestions?
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Lance Jones
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Stu Jackson

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2013, 07:07:04 PM »


Any suggestions?

Uhm, have you read the Critical Upgrades topic? 

Your article about improved access to the back of the galley sink is a great contribution to the C34 Tech wiki.

I'm simply not sure about what kind of suggestions you want us to help you out with other than what we've written so far.

A "tad" of water in your fuel should be evident in the bowl of the PRIMARY (Racor) water/fuel separator.

What am I missing?

Please help us to help you.

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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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Lance Jones

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2013, 01:01:15 PM »

Ok, here is what I've done since yesterday:
Pulled fuel pump screen - clean
Drained Racor - no water this time
Rebled system for 2-3 minutes
No start

Ron, I pulled the aft return line as suggested and had a solid stream of fuel
I am at a loss.
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Lance Jones
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