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Author Topic: On to the secondary fuel filter!  (Read 8717 times)

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Lance Jones

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On to the secondary fuel filter!
« on: July 26, 2011, 12:05:15 PM »

Ok, I've mastered changing the primary filter and read and re read the steps for the secondary. I found a listing of diesel filters in the Tech section. Which one is it?
    AC TP807
    Big-A 538
    Car Quest-86390
    Fram P-7514
    Kubota 70000-43081
    Motorcraft FG72
    NAPA 3390
    Purolator PER-262-F
    Universal 298854
    Wix 33390
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Lance Jones
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S/N 622

Clay Greene

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Re: On to the secondary fuel filter!
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2011, 12:42:26 PM »

If you go to the Torresen or Marine Parts Source websites, they have schematics to the Universal engines and links to the appropriate parts. The Universal fuel filter is under $20 so I personally wouldn't try to save a couple of bucks on some other brand (but that's just me). I think you have the right part number for the Universal filter for the M25XP.
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mainesail

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Re: On to the secondary fuel filter!
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2011, 12:47:34 PM »

If you want to go aftermarket I like the Wix, Donaldson or Baldwin filters. The factory filter is approx a 25 micron, "absolute" according to Joe J. at Westerbeke, and the Kubota, according to my local dealer, is a 24 micron (but I have never heard of a 24 mic paper).

That being said we have no clue what the filtration efficiency is for the factory filters so that 25 micron filter may be at 98%, 99% etc. and would possibly be a 10 micron filter at 50%.... So, it still could be a 10 micron rated filter if you look at different efficiencies.? I do know that Westerbeke on engine filters are 15-17 micron rated and Westerbeke actually publishes this..

If you want to take advantage of multi-step sequential filtering, the primary taking some load and the secondary taking some load, a 30 mic on the primary and the good aftermarket or factory is a fine set up. If you have clean fuel a 10 mic on your primary will be fine and your spin on will catch virtually nothing as it is may already be filtered out beyond that spec. Parker / Racor filters are rated nominally at 95% efficiency so the 10 micron is theoretically capturing 95% of the particles at or bigger than 10 micron.. They consider "absolute" 98.6%-98.7%..

Universal advises against anything smaller than 10 mic for the spin on, though I don't believe you could even find one and of course we don't know if this is absolute or nominal..

Kubota apparently designed this product to run on 25 micron "absolute" filters, but at what efficiency we do not know, so over filtering to 2 micron is not really all that necessary.

« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 11:59:07 AM by mainesail »
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Stu Jackson

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Re: On to the secondary fuel filter!
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2011, 01:25:36 PM »

I found a listing of diesel filters in the Tech section. Which one is it?

Lance, the simple answer is ANY ONE OF THEM.  That's why they are called "equivalents."  Many people can't find, say a Kubota, but can wander into a Napa or Kragen store and find one of the equivalents.

Your boat, your filter, your choice. :D
« Last Edit: July 26, 2011, 01:26:00 PM by Stu Jackson »
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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Lance Jones

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Re: On to the secondary fuel filter!
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2011, 02:21:26 PM »

Thanks for the input guys!
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Lance Jones
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mainesail

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Re: On to the secondary fuel filter!
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2011, 02:50:59 PM »

I found a listing of diesel filters in the Tech section. Which one is it?

Lance, the simple answer is ANY ONE OF THEM.  That's why they are called "equivalents."  Many people can't find, say a Kubota, but can wander into a Napa or Kragen store and find one of the equivalents.

Your boat, your filter, your choice. :D

The problem with equivalents is they are rarely equivalents. The Wix for example is a 10 micron nominal rated filter with no definition of what "nominal" is for Wix. They don't know the "absolute" as I have spoken with their engineering department to try and find that out. The Universal is claimed to be a 25 micron by Joe J. at Westerbeke and the Kubota a 24 micron and some others like Donaldson a 17 micron etc. etc...... Fram simply chooses not to publish any micron specs for the "equivalent" filter? It is hard to know what the equivalent is when it is tough to get a straight answer out of Universal.

Slight changes in micron ratings with oil are one thing but with fuel it can mean injector issues which can get expensive. I suppose so long as the "equivalent" filter is less than the micron rating of the Kubota or Universal filters you should be fine. Of course even my local Westerbeke distributor does not know what the factory micron rating is. I had to email Westerbeke to find out and was told 25 micron "absolute" but as I mentioned above depending upon the efficiency rating it could still be a 10 micron "nominal" filter even if a 25, if that makes sense..
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 11:52:46 AM by mainesail »
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Kevin Henderson

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Re: On to the secondary fuel filter!
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2011, 04:44:47 PM »

Whoo Hooo!!!!    :thumb: :thumb:

You've inspired me Lance!  I too will take on the challenge of the secondary filter this Friday.
(I'll be playing hooky from work )   :abd:
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Ron Hill

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Re: On to the secondary fuel filter!
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2011, 05:26:13 PM »

Guys : I believe that Purolator and Kubota are both 10 micron filters. 

Pick up the telephone and call their tech sectons and ask them the question yourself !!

Or you can vaselate over the info that others post on the net!!
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Stu Jackson

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Re: On to the secondary fuel filter!
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2011, 05:50:00 PM »

Maine Sail,

Yes, that's right.  There has been some confusion over the micron rating of the Universal secondary filter recently as I've seen on the web.

We did have along discussion about this on the Fuel Filtration 101 topic. (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,1124.msg33176.html#msg33176)

I've also added this discussion to the "Fuel Filtration 101" reference in the "101 Series" sticky.

« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 10:52:48 AM by Stu Jackson »
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sail4dale

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Re: On to the secondary fuel filter!
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2011, 11:19:37 PM »

Having sold and engineered hydraulic systems for over 30 years with Parker Hannifin (Racor is a division), I read these discussions with amused interest.  I think the first thing regarding ratings is to qualify whether you are talking absolute or nominal ratings.  It really gets complicated and does allow filter manufacturers a good deal of leeway in their claims. 
Here is a brief article on ratings that might enlighten all of us on filtration.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=303109
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Steve Sayian

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Re: On to the secondary fuel filter!
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2011, 02:50:01 AM »

The NAPA filter is about 8 bucks.  Been using them for 4 years and no problems.
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Steve Sayian
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mainesail

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Re: On to the secondary fuel filter!
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2011, 05:58:37 AM »

I have emailed & called a number of manufacturers of filters to see if we can get to the bottom of this. As of yet only a few have responded.

Quote from: Baldwin Filters

"RC,

BF940 has a 4 nominal with a 15 absolute micron rating.

Thank you,

Sandra H.
"

I also re-confirmed with Westerbeke tech support in Taunton, MA, 5 minutes ago, that the on engine 298854 is a 25 micron absolute rated filter. Joe J did not know what the nominal rating  of the 298854 is...

Quote from: Donaldson Filtration

RC,

The P550127 filter that cross references to your Kubota filter has a 17 micron absolute and 5 micron nominal rating. This filter fits a large number of applications and may not match Kubota's micron specifications exactly. I don't know what the Kubota filters are specified to.

Thanks


It should be noted that Donaldson defines "absolute" as 99% of the particles trapped to 17 micron...
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 10:28:42 AM by mainesail »
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Lance Jones

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Re: On to the secondary fuel filter!
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2011, 07:45:51 AM »

I read in another post that with the primary being a 2 micron that it will get nearly all the stuff that can possibly get to the motor. Does the difference between 10 - 25 matter a bunch other than fuel flow being pushed (As opposed to being pulled from the primary)?
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Lance Jones
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Ralph Masters

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Re: On to the secondary fuel filter!
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2011, 08:27:59 AM »

Holy Cow sail4dale, that was some read.  I think my brain is still smoking here from that.
And for the rest of you, if you do run a 2 micron in the Racor, I would not worry too much about what the rating of the on engine filter is.
Have a great Wednesday everybody, turn off those engines and go sailing.....................

Ralph
Ciao Bella
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Ralph Masters
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Lance Jones

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Re: On to the secondary fuel filter!
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2011, 02:21:19 PM »

An ah ha moment.... After ordering a Universal filter on-line, I went to the local major named auto parts store. I was going to get a spare (equivalent) for the parts bin. When I requested the Fram (Not available) the suitable replacement was not the Purolator PER-262-F or the Motorcraft FG72. When I requested those models, the suitable replacement wasn't any of the other ones. I'm going to try another name brand parts store and see what happens there...
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Lance Jones
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