Hot water tank heating loop leak

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Jack Hutteball

Searched the wiki and have not seen this issue before.  I am getting engine cooling water/antifreeze mixture in the aft compartment of the bilge.  I have carefully checked all hoses and connections around the engine, heat exchanger and find nothing.  I have checked the hose connections from the engine to the back of the water heater and find no leaks.  When I use a mirror and look under the sink cabinet I can see the hoses and they are dry.  (Yes Stu, they look new, not like the ones you pulled from under your cabin sole!) I have checked for chafe where the hoses go thru the floor of the sink cabinet, all dry.  But there is coolant dripping from the end of the boards that form the base for the sink cabinet and the floor under the settee where the water heater and batteries are located.  Since this is in the area under the water heater, there has to be a leak associated with the heater.  I see nothing on the back of the heater where the hose connects, completely dry.

The Seaward manual that I have has a great exploded view of the front of the hot water tank, but not the back.  Since there is no evidence of water on the outside of the square case, is it possible that the coolant is leaking inside the case between the case and the water tank, then coming out of the case on the bottom (which I can't see unless I remove the water tank) finding its way to the bilge?  Anyone had a similar problem before?

Then a final question, has anyone removed the hot water tank from a MKII?  It appears to me that the only way it will come out is to remove the batteries and rotate it 90 degrees so it will come up thru the settee seat access hole.  This is looking like my next step.

Jack
Jack and Ruth Hutteball
Mariah lll, #1555, 2001
Anacortes, Washington

Craig Illman

Jack - What about your cabin heater that your dealer installed that runs off the engine loop?

Craig

Jack Hutteball

Craig,
I did check that as well.  It is in the center compartment under the settee and has no opening to the bilge.  The one splice connection the dealer made is tight and not leaking.  Thanks for the thought.  I don't recall seeing anyone with a MKII having HWT problems - yet.

Jack
Jack and Ruth Hutteball
Mariah lll, #1555, 2001
Anacortes, Washington

Ken Juul

I'm not familiar with the MKII set up, is it possible to disconnect both the engine coolant hoses from the back of the water heater and then rejoin to make the loop without the water heater?  If it still leaks, then it's not the heater.
Ken & Vicki Juul
Luna Loca #1090
Chesapeake Bay
Past Commodore C34IA

Jack Hutteball

Ken, that is a great thought.  The hose connections are difficult to get to but it can be done.  Will give that a try. I thought about disconnecting them from the engine and installing a shunt there, but there would still be a lot of coolant in the lines.

Thanks, Jack
Jack and Ruth Hutteball
Mariah lll, #1555, 2001
Anacortes, Washington

Fred Koehlmann

Hi Jack,

Did you ever work out where the leak came from. We have a MkII and since we launched this season, we've had a leak from the same area under the section between the galley and the battery storage area. The hot water tank and it's connections all look and feel dry and under the sink all the plumbing feels dry. The coolant hoses look in great shape as well. I hope I won't have to pull out everthing under the sink just to find the source, but I don't see another way.

Thanks, Fred.
Frederick Koehlmann: Dolphina - C425 #3, Midland, ON
PO: C34 #1602, M35BC engine

Jack Hutteball

Hi Fred,

Tightening the connections on the back side of the hot water tank (had to remove the drawer cabinet to do it) solved that problem, no more coolant coming from under the galley.  Then when I thought I had finished with that issue, more coolant was finding it's way into the bilge.  That turned out to be a loose coolant connection on the port end of the heat exchanger.  It was very loose and it had never been touched before.  Tightened that and now no more coolant in the bilge.  You might want to check those on both ends carefully.  It was actually hard for me to find that.

Jack
Jack and Ruth Hutteball
Mariah lll, #1555, 2001
Anacortes, Washington

Ron Hill

Guys : A word of caution. 

When you continue to tighten the small 1/2" hoses/clamps on to plastic fittings, you will tend to make the connection more oblong than round!!

I've found that with the water especially the hot water/water heater fittings, that the use of some "thread sealant/pipe dope" is invaluable on keeping the fitting from leaking.

A thought
Ron, Apache #788

Fred Koehlmann

So, I just got back from a week vacation on the boat and this leak has definitily got me stumped. From what I'm reading online and in the manual, the hotwater heating loop is filled with coolant, which I'm assuming is the same thing as the pink antifreeze that I top up in the container in the port lazarette. However the leaking fluid is not pink and more copious. Within a few minutes the dripping filled a small yoguart cup. The contants were clear (slightly brownish/dirty), with no noticable odour. No, I did not taste it, but it certainly did look like water.

Now if the "coolant" that is being exchanged between the heater and the engine is water, then I'm thinking my hot water heater hoses are shot and need replacing as per Stu's noted critical upgrade. If not, then I'm stuck. The hose connections below the galley are all solid and drip dry. While i can't get my fingers everywhere around the hot water tank, I have been able to push paper towels around the base, which has pulled away dry everytime. The two thru hulls are also dry. Yet somewhere just starboard of the batteries there is dripping coming out from between the plywood floor/base.

I'm feeling that I may need to pull the hot water tank just to see. What a pain that would be.

Any thoughts?

Thanks, Fred.
Frederick Koehlmann: Dolphina - C425 #3, Midland, ON
PO: C34 #1602, M35BC engine

Stu Jackson

In your other post you mentioned the leaking stanchion vent.  Could this be from the starboard stanchion vent that is for the water tank?
Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

Fred Koehlmann

Hi Stu,

On the MkII we only had a stanchion vent on the port side for the head. Our water tanks are vented either through the chainlocker for the forward one, and aft out the transom for the aft tank.

We do get the usual small dripping from the stuffing box, but not this. I can see it dripping down from the plywood when I look up from within the bildges.
Frederick Koehlmann: Dolphina - C425 #3, Midland, ON
PO: C34 #1602, M35BC engine

Roc

Fred,
There is a drain hose at the bottom of the refridgerator that leads to a petcock under the trashcan.  Could that be leaking?  You said you were on the boat for a week, and I assume, you had the refridgerator stocked.  You said you filled a yogurt cup of liquid.  Maybe it's the refridgerator drain hose clamp that needs tightening?  Not the section at the petcock, but the connection right under the refrigerator, that is starboard of the batteries.
Roc - "Sea Life" 2000 MKII #1477.  Annapolis, MD

Fred Koehlmann

Hi Roc,

I did not check that... I'll look at it this weekend hopefully. That said, our frig is pretty dry, with only a bit of condensation. Not enough to fill the bildges. That yogurt cup was filled in under five minutes.

Is it possible for the hot water tank to develop a "crack" and leak out from below? Am I correct in believeing that it isn't the hot water coolant hoses if i don't see the "pink stuff"?
Frederick Koehlmann: Dolphina - C425 #3, Midland, ON
PO: C34 #1602, M35BC engine

patrice

Quote from: fkoehlmann on July 10, 2012, 04:31:48 AM
Am I correct in believeing that it isn't the hot water coolant hoses if i don't see the "pink stuff"?

Hi,

I'm not an expert, but when you are referring to the Pink Stuff, that should be ''Plumbing anti-freeze''.  The stuff you put in the plumbing for winter.
Engine coolant should be more like a green color. 
_____________
Patrice
1989 MKI #970
TR, WK, M25XP
   _/)  Free Spirit
~~~~~~

Roc

Long Lasting engine coolant is reddish in color, so yes, it could be engine coolant antifreeze.  Other than the refrigerator drain clamp, the other hoses in that area is the shower sump.  About winter 'Pink Stuff', could it be residual winterization antifreeze that is coming out of the refridgerator drain hose?  I pour pink stuff in the refridgerator during winterization to displace any water that may have accumulated over the season.  Fred, don't know if you do that too. You said you put paper towels under the hot water heater and they come up dry.  Try leaving them there for a while to see if they become saturated.  The other option is just to take off the couple of screws that hold the hot water tank down and tilt it up to see if you can notice anything underneath.
Roc - "Sea Life" 2000 MKII #1477.  Annapolis, MD