Mark II Engine Compartment Limber Holes

wdbriner · September 02, 2009, 10:42:40 PM

I have been getting little pools of water and 'squishy' floorboards in the galley lately, plus the aft cabin carpet will be soaking wet. I had a more experienced boat yard person (and owner of many boats) look at it and he told me that this is a design defect in the 34 - that the space that the cutlass bearing sits in is limbered, but it takes nearly 3" of water to hit the limber hole. This means that the area will hold over a gallon of water before limbering. Nothing can be done about this save drilling holes in the ring frames (a bad idea). So, anytime the boat lies on port tack and heals, all the water drains through the engine box onto the aft cabin sole, then drains through the false bulkhead to the galley sole.

Is this for real? Is this really the result of a design defect? He said that he needs to 'adjust the cutlass bearing' to get this to stop. This just started so if it was a design defect I would think that it would be happening all the time...

Any thoughts? Suggestions? Ideas?

Your help is appreciated... thanks in advance.

Bill
2006 C34

Tom Clay · September 02, 2009, 11:11:59 PM

Bill,

I say BS, not a design defect. I have 2006 MK11 and have a drain hole to drain the water from the dripping stuffing box. My limber hole only allows about 1/2" of water maybe a pint of water. I have never got water from this area in the galley area.

If your getting more than a few drips a minute your stuffing box probably needs tightening. I tightened mine for the first time this spring. I plan on pulling the boat out next month for bottom paint and will replace the packing with the packing (gore) Ron and others have recommended. You can tighten the gore packing down so that there are no drips from your packing.

Ken Krawford · September 03, 2009, 04:01:55 AM

Bill,

The function of the cutlass bearing is simply to support the shaft as it passes through the strut. The packing gland (aka stuffing box) limits water from entering the boat where the shaft exits the hull. I would be wary of employing someone who wants to "adjust the cutlass bearing" to prevent water incursion into your boat.
Here's a link to the Wiki dealing with packing gland adjustment - http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Stuffing_box_packing

Ken

tonywright · September 03, 2009, 06:19:35 AM

Clearly the experienced guy misspoke. He meant to say the stuffing box (we all get confused with nautical terms from time to time). In your case the stuffing box seems to be desperate need of adjustment. But I would also check all hose connections in the area, and the seal on your water filter. Also make sure that you have the engine in (reverse) gear so that the shaft is not turning while you are sailing, unless you have a feathering or folding prop.

You might want to check that the limber hole is not plugged.

I would see to this quickly before it gets any worse. Ken's suggestion is a good one to check the Wiki. You can also check page 45 of the owner's manual. You never want to adjust a standard stuffing box until there are no drips. 2 or 3 drips per minute are required to ensure adequate lubrication. So tighten it up to this point and no more. Many of us have the PYI dripless seal which does eliminate all water entering that area under the engine block. A project for when you have the boat hauled out.

I would not really call it a design defect on a 34 that the limber hole does not drain through when there is a lot of heel. I think that many sailboats would have the same problem with an engine in that location. The real issue is to stop all that water coming in.

Tony

Jim Hardesty · September 03, 2009, 06:57:10 AM

Bill,
Check to make sure that the limber holes are clean. Mine were plugged and I had a similar problem. Doesn't take much sawdust or other material left from the factory to plug the holes. FYI my bilge stays dry. Just a small bit of water under the shaft. I think most of the water evaporates on the way to the bilge.
Jim

Ron Hill · September 03, 2009, 07:14:19 PM

Bill : What you need to consider is Gore Drippless packing (for the packing gland) . A thought

Stu Jackson · September 03, 2009, 08:35:31 PM

Quote from: tonywright on September 03, 2009, 06:19:35 AMAlso make sure that you have the engine in gear so that the shaft is not turning while you are sailing.

Be very careful here about which gear. See: http://www.c34.org/faq-pages/faq-transmission-position-sailing.html

Re stuffing box: When I wrote that wiki many years ago (1999 or so) they hadn't invented the e-marine Gore dripless packing. I have since updated the wiki to include the Gore GFO material. [Oct. 2009]

I don't necessarily believe the guy "mis-spoke" because it is possible that the more appropriate view of this is he's a BS artist workin' on YOUR wallet. There is a BIG difference between the cutlass bearing and the stuffing box. The stuffing box also has another name, packing gland, which is a reasonable "mis-spoke" but confusing something OUTSIDE the boat with something INSIDE the boat would make me highly suspicious.

Learn about the stuffing box. Clean the limber hole under the engine. Do some more research on this website because the Mark II engine compartments are different than the Mark Is and there was a message board post or an OLD FAQ with a picture that showed how to deal with it. Perhaps one of our Mark II guys could help Scott out here on this subject.

After all these years I'm still hesitant to attribute any issues on my boat as a "design defect" because access is so far superior to other boats I have been on and our systems are basic, simple and they work. For a boat that was designed over 25 years ago and essentially unchanged in over 20 years of production, like the late C34 Commodore Jon Schneider said: "Frank & Gerry got this one right!"

Jack Hutteball · September 03, 2009, 09:46:30 PM

Bill,

I had a similar problem when my boat was new. There is a fair amount of water that can build up behind the engine pan on a MK ll before it runs over into the pan and out thru the limber holes at the front end. The carpet in my aft cabin used to get wet on a starboard tack. If you have not done it, you need to drill a couple of holes in the back end of the engine pan (the vertical face) so the water from the stuffing box runs under the pan and does not build up behind it. (Be careful that you don't drill thru the hull!!!) I believe I found the directions here on the site with a diagram showing where to drill the holes. I still get the problem occasionally if I am sailing on a starboard tack for a long time as the water will run into the aft cabin before it gets to the new holes I drilled, but only a small amount.

Jack

Stu Jackson · September 03, 2009, 11:28:45 PM

1. The picture for the C34 Mark II holes is found here, on the FAQ page: http://www.c34.org/faq-pages/faq-drainhole.html

2. "The Guide to the C34 Technical Resources" (which is sometimes a sticky on this message board) highly recommends that for folks with new-to-them-boats they at the very least review BOTH the Projects Page and the FAQ page. I also recommend downloading and reading the Knowledgebase, which includes both. The REASON for this is that if you read these "highlights" you may begin to remember having seen it and can investigate the details later as you needed them. How'd I find #1? I remembered reading it! And I don't even have a Mark II!

If I had a Mark II and those holes didn't "catch" enough water I'd build some kind of dam running fore and aft on each side to keep the water from sloshing port and starboard and making sure it eventually got the holes. Of course, keeping the water out makes more sense.

Jack, don't you mean port tack?

Tom Clay · September 04, 2009, 12:52:16 AM

I have corrected my post from cutlass bearing to stuffing box.....That's what happens when you post late at night 1/2 a sleep and cut and paste.....LOL

Our hull numbers are only 6 apart, I can't imagine his boat does not have the same drain hole that mine has at the back of the engine pan, unless someone at Catalina did not drill one, or low enough. If there is a hole I would make sure it is not plugged. Most of the water evaporates before ever going to the bilge on my boat.

I am looking forward to adding the Gore packing next month when I pull her to paint the bottom.

Stu Jackson · September 04, 2009, 07:35:32 AM

Quote from: Tom Clay on September 04, 2009, 12:52:16 AM
Our hull numbers are only 6 apart, I can't imagine his boat does not have the same drain hole that mine has at the back of the engine pan, unless someone at Catalina did not drill one, or low enough.

Tom, my understanding is that the whole point of the FAQ I linked to was that Catalina DID NOT make the holes and that each individual owner was required to do so.

John Sheehan · September 04, 2009, 09:25:14 AM

Our 2003 MK II came with a factory hole in the pan. However, there have been times on port tack (before I changed to the Gore packing) that there would be water on the carpet in the quarterbirth. Since I have not had that problem in a while I have tended to not worry about it. However, the one hole in the center doesn't properly drain when the boat is on a port tack and an additional hole on the starboard side of the pan would most likely eliminate the drainage problem.

Jack Hutteball · September 04, 2009, 10:57:51 AM

Right Stu, PORT tack...good catch, just making sure you are not asleep at the switch while relaxing with your recent surgery! Actually I keep my stuffing box adjusted so there is little problem, and I have actually thought about a little dam on the starboard side. I had the occasion to be on a port tack for 4 hours coming back through the Islands 4 weeks ago, sometimes heeling a lot as we were running between 7-8k most of the time. Nary a drop of water found it's way into the aft cabin. But Like Tom, I am upgrading to the gortex packing when I do the bottom in the spring. Then no more water at all. I do get some water in the aft cabin after I change the zinc in the HX as some seems to hide somewhere that I can't clean up. Hard to catch it all.
Jack

Stu Jackson · September 04, 2009, 12:21:48 PM

Quote from: Jack Hutteball on September 04, 2009, 10:57:51 AM...upgrading to the gortex packing when I do the bottom in the spring. Then no more water at all. ...

Jack, be careful, Gore Tex is NOT totally drip free, because that's what their instructions say.

As far as tacks are concerned, I guess my meds cleared up JUST a bit, 'cuz I really had to THINK hard about that one!

Ron Hill · September 06, 2009, 01:27:30 PM

Guys : The MKI does not have limber holes except for the one under the front of the engine. The dripping water from the stuffing box goes around the head sink bulkhead and then to the bilge. Some of that water also will collect in the underside of the starboard side aft cabin settee.
I've never really had a problem in the past 21 years, but them I've always used drip less packing.