Questions from a new owner - Anchors, etc.

[David Arnold]

I just took delivery of a brand new C34 that I will be sailing in the Rhode Island area.  In outfitting the boat I opted to purchase dock lines, fenders, anchor, chain and rode, etc. on my own rather than have the dealer provide.  What size of each would those of  you with experience recommend?  What type of anchor for all around use and how much chain?  I feel you can't have too much chain but at some point there must be diminishing returns (weight vs. holding power).  

Any other suggestions for a newbee would be most appreciated.

David Arnold
Easton, MA

[Paul Blumenfeld]

Congratulations on the new boat David!  I'm sure you will enjoy it.  

I have a 22 lb danforth and a 33 lb Bruce on my 1987.  I've had the boat for 2 years now and have not used the Bruce anchoring at the Channel Islands off of Ventura, CA.  The danforth fits on the bow and has worked well so far.  I only have a manual windlass and the 50' of chain and 22lb anchor is enough to lift.  I would use the Bruce in heavier weather.  I have 50' of 5/16" chain and 250' of 1/2 nylon.    Also have a 2nd anchor I use for the stern, 12lb high tensile danforth,  30' of 1/4" chain and 150' 1/2" nylon.  I will probably go up a size on chain and nylon when I replace them along with an electric windlass, but I have never had a problem in up to about 30knots or wind.

[captran]

Practical Sailor has done a number of reviews on anchors which you may want to review.  So much depends on what the anchoring conditions are-  depth and bottom.  Most the Catalinas I have seen have the 33 pound Bruce.  There was about twenty feet of 5/16 chain.  I think I bought 50 feet of HT 5/16 on the 200 feet of 5/8 rode.  The small danforth aboard was kept as a 3rd back up and I added the Fortress FX 37, 50 feet of the same chain and 200 feet of 5/8 rode.  I was cruising the Bahamas during summertime, so needed to be prepared for heavy winds, but shallow water, sandy bottom with occasional hard pan or grass.  Anchored a number of times in 50 knots.  We just moved the boat to the NW and starting to think about what I want to do.  In the NW it is often deeper water anchoring, mud, sand, rocky bottom, occasionally foul ground due to tree roots and debris.  I may reduce the chain some on the Bruce due to the weight and depth.  Another issue to think about is storage.  The FX 37 does not fit inside the anchor well on a 1997 model, so I bought one of the rail mounts and had it  mounted  on the top left bow rail.  Not great but it kept it usable, and in the Bahamas there are times one must use 2 anchors Bahamian Moor style.  I am looking forward to others responses.

[Ted Pounds]

David,

Congratulations on your new boat!     You'll love it.  

Since docking and anchoring requirements are Dependant on local conditions more than they are on the make of boat, I suggest talking to folks in your marina who have mid 30's sailboats.  They may be your best source for advice.  Also, as Ran said, Practical Sailor is a good source for info.  However you have to compare their tests with your local conditions (Though I think they did their testing near their office in Rhode Island   )

[Tom Soko]

David,
Congrats on your new "baby".  I'm sure you can't wait for splash day when everything thaws!  If your new boat came with a windlass, the size and type of chain is pre-determined for you (5/16"HT?).  The windlass manufacturer can tell you what fits on the windlass.  I sail out of Mystic, CT and often to the RI area.  Based on trial and error, I would suggest either a 33# Bruce (or the S/L knockoff) or a 35# Delta with 40-50' of chain and 200-250' of 5/8" rode.  10 or 20 feet of chain is asking for trouble in this area.   I had a Danforth for years and always had problems setting in places like the Salt Pond.  The Bruce I have now always sets on the first try.  My buddy's Delta is the same way.  I believe both were rated highly in the PS tests.  Also, with the windlass you might want to consider 8-plait rode with a direct chain-to-rope splice.  The 8-plait line goes smoothly thru the windlass and doesn't hockle or kink.  For fenders, you might want to consider four in the 8-10" range and two in the 10-12" range.  Dock lines should be at least 1/2", but 5/8 or 3/4 would be better.  A lot depends on where your slip is.  Exposed to wakes, wind, or swells? Well protected?  Floating docks or pilings?  Hope this helps.

[kerk fisher]

I also just bought a boat, albeit a '90 and it has a Super Max 15 HD #28 primary anchor (with adjustable shank) with a Fortress FX-16 secondary.  I've read good things about the Max, but I'm not hearing anyone talk about it.  Anybody have experience with it?  I"ve always used a Danforth, but.........     Kerk

[Ron Hill]

David : I'm sure that you'll be more than happy with your new C34.
Let me try to answer some of your questions:
1. Fenders - Suggest you should start out with 2ea 8"x20" and 2ea 6"x15".  Then you can add more as you see fit.  I have 10 fenders of various sizes/types on-board.  Also make your self a couple of fender boards with pressure treated 2x4s and protective end caps.
2. Dock lines - 1/2" nylon and get 3 or 4 that are 3 strand a 3 or 4 that are braided.  Makes sure that they are at least 25' and a few are 30'-35'.  
3. Anchor - You've hit upon a very personal preference item.  You need to have two types of anchors on-board for different bottoms - a fluke type and a plow type.  I like a Bruce 33 # for the plow and a Danforth #18 deep set hi tensil for the fluke type.
4. Chain - Another preference item.  I assume that you have a windless and it's the standard Catalina C34 issue.  I like 30 to 35 ft of chain (boat length) and it would be 5/16" Proof coil to fit that gypsy.  I use 1/4" 35" HT chain to match my gypsy.  
5. Rode - I'd get 200 ft of 1/2" nylon. On my primary anchor (Bruce) I prefer braided nylon as it always stays soft and plyable(and it's stronger).  On the secondary anchor (Danforth) I have 200 ft of 1/2" nylon 3 strand.
A few thoughts - sorry to be so verbal. Good luck with your new boat!  

[Ron Hill]

David : Sorry, I forgot a couple of very important items for your anchoring "system".  
1.  You need a swivel between the anchor and the chain.  As the wind and tide swing the boat the chain tends to twist.  The swivel allows the anchor to do it's own thing regardless of the turning boat (and keeps the chain from twisting and influencing the anchor).
2.  An anchor rode sentinel.  I use a 15lb mushroom anchor (much cheaper than a bronze weight) as a sentinel for the additional weight attached by a separate tag line.  The sentinel (sliding down the nylon) tends to keep the chain on the bottom so the chain/anchor have a nearly horizontal pull.
A side "Bennie" is that it keeps the nylon rode nearly straight down from the bow, not allowing the wing keel to wrap around the rode.

I have no "lunch hook" onboard.  Every time I anchor, the anchor is set and ready to hold for that sudden "thunder bumper" that comes out of nowhere.

Have fun with you new C34.  I'll be putting mine in the water (this spring) for the 18th season.  

[David Arnold]

Thanks for all your replies.  The consensus seems to be that a 33# Bruce would  be my best choice for a primary with between 35 to 50 feet of 5/16 inch chain (if 5/16 is proper for my windlass) and some 200 feet of 1/2" nylon.  Couple of questions arise and please forgive my ignorance but I found out a long, long time ago that the stupid questions are those NOT asked...  That said, what is a lunch hook as well as the purpose of the mushroom anchor (my knowledge of mushroom is for mooring purposes).  Lastly, Ron keeps 10 fenders aboard; seems to me that 10 fenders is far more than needed since the shape of the hull would leave a relatively small area needing fender protection and that 10 fenders would leave little storage space for anything else???

[Ray & Sandy Erps]

Hello David,

You are right on the mushroom anchor, a large mushroom shaped weight that is often used for a mooring anchor.  A lunch hook is a light weight secondary anchor of any type that is set for a short period of time while you're on the boat and able to monitor it, like at lunch time.  The idea is to not have to mess with the primary anchor if you're just going to sit for a little while.  We don't have a lunch hook either, we just use the primary anchor for everything and have another big anchor stowed in the anchor locker in case we need two.

On the fenders, we typically only use two at a time, but carry four, two for each side.  I used to carry six, but took two off the boat because they took up space and I didn't use them all year.  That's just a matter of each person's priorities.

[Randy and Mary Davison]

David,

Ron will probably answer about the mushroom as well but I highly recommend using a "sentinal" or "kellet" weight lowered part way down the rode with a small line.  Ron is just using a small mushroom as a weight - any weight will do.  I use a 20 lb downrigger weight just because I had one.

For Captran as well - I like to use the Kellet from Desolation northward as most regular cruisers in that area use all chain.  This is the only way to keep from drifting into them while still having sufficient scope out in the deep water that prevails.  It's also helped me in strong blows to keep the anchor/rode angle low.  The downside is that the kellet line sometimes twists around the rode which can slow down the retrieval process.

Like Ron, I use a 33# Bruce, 40 feet of chain and 1/2 inch line.

[Ron Hill]

David : Think that you need to reread my posts.  
I recommended that you you get 2 large and 2 medium fenders to start out with.  Yes, I have 10 of which 2 are flat type (to also kneel on).  As you do more sailing, I'm sure that your "fender inventory" will increase.

Once I got inadvertently caught on a T head and had all of those fenders on ONE side.  There was a BAD Xstrom and Langley AFB reported 104kts of wind!!!  They said that they would have to recalibrate their instruments as that high a wind was suspicious.  I was on the boat down below and the inclinometer was at 45degrees and we were tied to the dock.  The next day Langley reported that their instruments (which I already knew) were CORRECT!!!!!

All chain would be better, but anything a boat length to 50' is great.

Probably the best advice I can give you and your crew (based on the questions you're asking ) is to take the USCG Aux sailing classes.  That will also give you a discount on you marine insurance and they are very informative.  You might want to pick up a Chapman's Seamanship and read thru it.  Chock full of all kinds of information that will be important to sailors that are getting started with a new boat.  Look for last years edition as it's 1/2 the price and is NEVER out of date.    

The reason I use a "mushroom anchor" as a sentinel/kellet is that it's a CHEAP weight.  The best is a 20 lb kellet.  Good Luck & Fair Winds!!  

[Mike Vaccaro]

David,

Lots of good advice here, and anchoring is an interesting topic sure to generate lots of discussion.  Most boats spend the majority of their lives tied to the dock or moored.  Most of these boats aren't equipped with proper ground tackle.  Many boats that spend considerable time on the hook use a "storm" anchor as their primary, carrying several different types and sizes for different bottom conditions.  

By definition, anything less than a properly set storm hook requires an anchor watch.  If a "lunch hook" is set, it is assumed that the anchor can be weighed IMMEDIATELY in the event of problems.  Since stern anchors are traditionally smaller than bow anchors, they make a great "lunch hook" if conditions allow.  

Unless you plan to post an anchor watch, it's best to use a "storm" anchor with sufficient chain (a minimum of a boat length, but 50' is better), a proper swivel if a nylon rode is used and a kellet, if desired, every time you anchor.  In addition, if we are anchoring for more than one evening or if conditions warrant, we'll set multiple anchors (usually a bow and stern, but if we anticipate a swing, we'll generally use a bahama moor).  Our bow tackle includes a storm-sized aluminum plow and a storm-sized aluminum danforth style.  Our stern anchor is an aluminum danforth style as well that is "properly sized" for our boat, i.e., not a storm hook but an anchor that is rated to handle our boat in up to 40 knots of wind.  We use aluminum since we don't have a windlass.  As a rule of thumb the minimum number of anchors should be two, one at the bow and one at the stern, but a more manageable set-up has two at the bow and one at the stern.    

Additionally, any anchoring system should be easy to use.  If it's stowed fore or aft, and can't be deployed and set in less than a minute in an emergency, you probably need to re-think the way your anchors are rigged.  It's best think of an anchor like a parachute--most of the time you don't need it, but when you do, there's no time make sure that it's readily available and works on the first try.  As a bare minimum, this means either a bow or stern anchor that is mounted on the bow roller or stern pulpit that can be deployed immediately in the event it's needed.  

You can't overdo your ground tackle if you want a good night's sleep!  It's one of those critical systems that merits all of the attention and money you can afford--much more so than your electrical system, air conditioning, refrigeration, plumbing, etc.  The anchor and tackle may be the only thing protecting your investment...

Welcome aboard!

Mike

[David Arnold]

Thank you all for your input; This forum is GREAT!

The term sentinal" or "kellet" have been used a couple of times and I assume that the term refers to a weight of some sort that is added close to the end of the chain (where chain meets nylon rode) to insure that the chain stays on the bottom.  Would that be correct?  As a rule when I do anchor it is in shallow, well protected coves or anchorages but clearly I need to be prepared for deeper water in stormy seas to be on the safe side.

Incidentally, this is not my firt boat just my biggest and from the sounds of all of you I will never have reason to move up again as you all LOVE your C34's!  I have taken the USCG Aux. class but it was quite a few years back.  I have been looking into enrolling in a spring refresher and hope to have some answers this afternoon after attending the Boat Show currently in Boston this week.

David
"Prints of Tides"

[Ron Hill]

David : A sentinel/kellet is a weight that is on it's own separate "tag" line (small line about 1/4").  I use a snap shackle to connect it to the main nylon anchor rode.  You then let out enough tag line to send the sentinel most of the way down the nylon rode.  It's cleated separately from the anchor rode.

EXAMPLE: I have a rode that has 35' of chain and I let out an additional 20' of nylon rode for a total of 55' of anchor rode.  I would snap on my sentinel to the nylon rode and send it out 18- 19 feet.  (I want to keep its snap shackle from touching/tangling with the shackle between the chain and the nylon rode)  As I let out more main rode for an oncoming storm, I also MIGHT let out some more sentinel tag line.  I have my tag line marked with a small wire tie at 20feet.  I adjust it from that known length.
If you have a 20 lb sentinel that equates to about 20 more feet of chain (1 lb/ft) on the nylon rode.  

Retrieval:  I pull up the sentinel first.  Then I usually pull in the nylon anchor rode till the chain reaches the bow roller.  I do this about 30 min before departing so the flow of the water cleans off the length of chain from the roller to the bottom.  When the engine's running and we're ready to depart I pull in the rest of the chain and retrieve the anchor.

As I previously mentioned another advantage of having a sentinel is to keep the nylon anchor rode straight down and wrapping it's self around the wing keel(during wind and current directional changes).

Look on page 226 of your Chapman's and you'll see a diagram of an anchor sentinel/kellet in operation.   Also don't be lured into a false sense of security by your secluded "well protected" anchorage.  I've seen more boat drag anchor in those than the boats anchored in the open!! When I anchor I'm set for 50+kts of wind - thunderstorms HAPPEN!!