Messages

[Electrical Panel Vintages]

Ron

Nope, the main electrical panel was what that quote was from from earlier in the thread.  See my topic on the post: Electrical Panel Vintages.  

I have the same cockpit engine control panel you do, but without your great upgrades.  We, too, however, keep it covered with a snap on sunbrella cover.  Makes a BIG difference.

Jim and Mike

"Mainly for us old guys, you get rid of the black with "red" back-lighting panel and replace with shiny new WHITE with LARGE BLACK lettering panel that you can actually read from the dinette, even at night!"

Ha ha!  There's yet a THIRD type, which we call the "Confederate Money Panel."

That's the old tan with white lettering with, get this, FUSES!!!  

They're so old that they're actually coming back in style!  Retro, you know.  Like a good wine...

[PLUMBING]

PLUMBING (water hoses, plumbing, general boat stuff, rigging, furling)

Company:   S&R Marine   Address:   Grand Marina, Alameda
   Contact:   Don Rock      
   Phone:   510-749-0761
               Cell:         510-325-6464

Don's a good guy, pleasant to work with, will share his knowledge with you, doesn't mind you helping out while he's there.  Kinda jack of all trades.  Most likely works only on our side of the Bay, and local.  Has a ponytail like Greg Sherwood used to have!  

He's off cruising now.

ELECTRICAL - good guy used by Stan O'Hoppe, nice work

              Ryan's Marine, Ryan Schofield  510-385-3842
                 lives on his boat, a C27 I think, at Oakland Yacht Club (most likely will travel), his small thin ad is usually in the last ten pages of Latitude 38

REFRIGERATION (Adler Barbour fridges)

               Anderson Refrigeration Company   Address:   PO Box 2346
   Contact:   Carl Anderson      3204 Fiji Lane
   Phone:   510-521-3111   Bay Farm Island
   Title:      City:   Alameda
   Sec:      State:   CA
   Dear:   Carl   Zip Code:   94501

SURVEYOR

   Company:   Worldwide Marine Surveys, Ltd.   Address:   351 Embarcadero
   Contact:   Peter Minkwitz      
   Phone:   510-465-2527   Ext:      CC:   1   
   Title:      City:   Oakland
   Sec:      State:   CA
   Dear:   Peter   Zip Code:   94606

Peter is an absolute professional.  He was the director of Svendsen's boat yard in Alameda for many years.  He surveyed two C34s for me, the one we chose NOT to purchase (thanks to Peter's survey), and Aquavite.  Peter is familiar with C34s and has copies of much of the earlier (1998) on-line website material, which he asked me to copy for him to further his knowledge of our specific models.  Highly recommended.  His written surveys are very thorough, and include his recommendations for work that needs to be accomplished.  He doesn't do engine surveys, so that is something, as always, you need to consider separately.  I know of no one else in the Bay area who will provide the information needed in a REAL survey (as opposed to only an inventory survey) in such a concise and useful manner.

BAD News:  Peter passed away in 2011.

Nolan

Welcome.  A search on this message board for ST4000 will turn up a lot of hits.   Just click on search (above) and type in ST4000, and then the search button.

There have been many issues with ST4000s and some owners have reported particular attention should be paid to the initial settings in addition to the fluxgate compass location.

I recommend that you start your research with the above posts and see if they begin to answer your question, as well as provide you some other insights.

Howard

We have an M-25 engine, 1640 engine hours now.  I purchased a new 3 inch HX in 2001 for $300.08 from our local Universal distributor here in the SF Bay.  I installed it two years later.  Needed to bend the mounting bracket down a bit to clear the exhaust riser.  When you do so, be sure to check the clearance for the removal of the transmission dip stick.

I would recommend going to the 3 inch HX if you're already having to replace the old 2 inch HX.  The engine runs a lot cooler and you can keep it at full throttle when needed in emergencies for a longer period of time.  We used to run at 175 F to 185 F with a clean 2 inch, now run at 160 F all the time.

It's also a good time to replace your water hoses.  The bottom connection of the new 3 inch HX is angled at 90 to port, so you'll end up needing a longer hose there anyway.

Ron

Separate email sent directly.

Closeup photo of tack fittings here.

Ron

The furler is great.  It replaced an old CDI furler that was rotten both physically and in design.

I bought it because of NO Maintenance.  That is really not true.  You'll need to learn how it is assembled and installed and make sure of a few things.

The set screws on the extrusion need to be installed with lock tite.  The dolt who installed it had to come back a few weeks later to tighten a few that were, fortunately, within reaching distance by standing on the pulpit.  He said, "The guy who installed this shoulda put lock tite on the set screws."  I waited until he was finished before I told him that he'd done it.  It was sooo tempting to just push him into the water while he was still standing on the pulpit!!!

Make sure that the jib halyard is high enough at the top to engage the top plate that holds the top swivel up past the Darth Vader top wrap stop fitting.  If it's not high enough, you could end up scoring the top extrusion and replacing it like I had to do.   Make sure you lubricate the threads of the forestay turnbuckle well before it gets snugged up or you'll not be able to adjust it later.  Make sure that you continue to lubricate the four set screws that hold the bottom assembly onto the forestay.  They're aluminum into titanium.  

When you set your jib on the furler, you'll have to decide whether you want to put a pendant on the top or the bottom, depending on whether you want the sail as a deck sweeper or off the deck.  A lot has to do with the dimensions of your installation and the luff length of your jib.

The installation manual covers all this very well, but it's a good reminder that NOTHING on a boat is really maintenance-free.

Other than that, it really is no maintenance.

Try a search on ProFurl on the board, I've discussed it before.

More tomorrow.

You should be able to find your mast height by going to the main website, "C34 Home" upper right hand corner of this board, and click on Brochures.  The dimensions are located on the brochures.

Ron

I have the information on my boat.  I'm going there tomorrow.  I'll get back to you.  We bought the LCI32.  The "I", I think, indicates the short or long link plates, but I will look it up.  I had purchased the furler from the rep at a boat show and didn't have it installed until 6 months later.  The local rigger, who must have had a screw loose, took a long time to get some parts from the factory in Florida.  I'll see if I have any notes on that, as to what he needed that he didn't have.

If you want your jib off the deck, you'll most likely be looking at the longer link plates.  That choice, I believe is yours, not mine.  Check the brochure, they show lots of different variations.  I'll take a picture of mine tomorrow also and post it here.

I'll get the pin size from my material on the boat.

Ron and others

This is a link to the IMPORTANT Posting Photos thread.

Thanks,

http://www.c34.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1933

recommends that you also go here:

http://www.c34.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1747

Essentially, when we swtiched over, many folks didn't resign up as requested by the webmaster.  Once you do so, everything should work.

Sorry for any inconvenience.

Mike, looks great.  What is the Delta part # so others can take advantage of your great, inexpensive find?

[both at the same time]

Mike

I just printed out and reread this thread.  Mike V's and Randy's posts are  chock full of VERY good info, especially when reread a few times.

I also noticed I hadn't answered your earlier questions.

1.  I recommend going to a COMBINATION of higher output alternator WITH a separate external regulator AT THE SAME TIME.  Don't put a new regulator on an old alternator.  The new alternator and new regulator are the equipment I have cleverly hidden in my basement and waiting to be installed.  You should do them both at the same time.  (I also have a LINK 2000 that I bought when I got our Heart 1500 Inverter/charger, but haven't yet installed either.  Shame on me!   )

However (here's the BUT) (and share this with Jan ) you said you keep plugged in all the time and just weekend out.  Therefore, your batteries are always fully charged when you leave the dock, and you have a substantial house bank.  SO, why bother swapping out the alternator AT ALL?  

Your engine is only a few years old, so is the alternator.  If you follow my steadily diminishing story above, you're just not going to be out that long to even NEED the alternator to put more into the house bank, if you do the energy used math.  I hate to delete a project from your "to do" list, but unless you're soon going to be changing your sailing habits, I suggest that you seriously consider simply leaving it alone.  If you plan to stay out longer, do the $$$ math on a big solar panel, which could keep up with your fridge load.  I forget if you have AC.  In that case a generator makes sense for being on the hook.  $720 could go a long way for either solar or a small Honda generator, which Ron and others have mentioned a number of times.  

Many folks are swapping out their OLD alternators - mine is almost 20 years old!!! - with newer higher outputs with external regulators because the old alternators are so old, need replacement anyway, so why not do it "right" and get the bang for the bucks?  I wouldn't put in an old style automotive regulator setup now that I know so much about keeping batteries healthy with the three stage regulators, and saving engine running time.   But that's the way we like to use our boat, off shorepower and on the hook.  

Your new Truecharge 40 will also keep your batteries healthy.  As it is now, you can safely stay out three nights and four days without running your engine, if you are frugal with your use.  Don't know if in the Floria heat you can turn your fridge off at night, but any insulation or heat blankets inside should help.

So, if you use 30 ah per day with the fridge off, four days is 30 X 4 = 120 ah, out of your 400 ah house bank is nowhere near the 50% (200 ah).  Mike V's post said there's the 15 - 20% improvement in an external regulator vs your stock.  A little engine running time wouldn't hurt and could be done easily.  So if you need to run the fridge 24/7, you only get 3 days before you have to run your engine (60 ah per day x 3 days = 180 ah out).  That's still more than a weekend, right?  If you get 30 amps out of your stock regulator alternator combination, motor around for an hour or two and you'll get another day out of your system and keep near the battery depletion "limit."  Do one night in one anchorage, motor to the next and bingo.  That gives you Friday night to Sunday coming home.  Make sense?  Anyway, you now have some options to consider.  Always fun spending someone else's $$$.  

2.  Steve's weblog can be found at:
http://www.c34.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=663&highlight=first+year

I couldn't find the second one.  I think it had more on electrical than the first one.  Seems that the switchover from Infopop also has another issue, wherein if people don't resign up, see the IMPORTANT Photo posting thread, the search engine can't find stuff.  Oh well...

Keep trying searches on steve lyle.  I found that its spelling been done a lot of different ways: stevelyle, SteveLyle (no spaces between), sometimes with caps, sometimes not.  Also try the +steve+lyle on the search, cap, no caps, etc.  These variations show up on the searches, sometimes with 3 pages to peruse, sometimes 15.  Yikes!!! Kyle Ewing also did a very good blog.

3.  May 7, is on my calendar.  Let's email and keep in touch.

An answer to this can be found at:

http://www.c34.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=10318

[RECHARGING DEAD BATTERIES]

Mike S

ENERGY BUDGETS, BATTERY USE & RECHARGING DEAD BATTERIES

Mike V's story was very well put.  Was that heresy or hearsay?  I don't know.

But follow this logic:  Once you've got a good large house bank, and you've done all the wiring upgrades, and you've checked all your connections and you've got the monitoring system and you regularly check your distilled water levels, and you have a handle on everything, including your energy budget, and you either frivolously use or be miserly with your energy usage, what do you do next?

You learn about the steadily diminishing law of returns of how your engine driven alternator can replenish your batteries, regardless of whether it puts out 30 amps from the stock regulator, or 55 to 80 amps from a high powered new alternator with an external regulator.

We learned that this summer on our cruise (knew it already but saw it in action for the first time   ).

Page 46, Figure 2-13 of Calder's covers it well.  Start out with full house bank, in our case 315 amp hours, from charging at our friend's dock.  Spent two hours sailing, 20 nanoseconds motoring to our first anchorage.  Stayed there two nights, less than three days.  315 less say 60 times 3 = 180 = 135 ah left. (Using fridge and lights "frivolously").  Motored 6 hours the next day.  Input equals say 30 amps per hour, put back in 150.  150 + 135 = 285.  (We get a good 30 amps input from our stock alternator because we still have our AutoMac.)  Anchored out for three nights, turned off the fridge at night.  285 left less (3 x 30) = 195 left.  Motored four hours = 30 x 4 = 120 + 195 = back to 315.  On the hook for two more nights frivolously = 315 less 120 = 195.  Sailed for a day, little motoring.  195 - 60 = 135.

This could go on and on until we plugged in again, and without motoring for long periods of time, would steadily diminish the amount left in the house bank unless we turned off the fridge.

Conclusion, unless we plugged in or motored for a long time, which we CAN do on the Delta here, less and less is left in the house bank.  It's a fairly common occurrence, as long as you either do the math or have a Link monitor.

But we KNEW that going in and, so, could adjust for it.  If one wants to be totally self-sufficient, then solar (which we have but I didn't include above since it's just a small panel to offset the weekly discharge of the wet cell battery banks we have), or wind or both HAVE to be added, or a separate generator, or, as Captain. Ron says, "You just pull in and ask directions, Kitty" and sneak a little charge in while you're waiting!  

The other conclusion is what we're all learning, and I say it again:  there is simply no right way to do things electrically on our boats.  It all depends on how you want to or need use your boat.  Marina hopping, as mentioned above, will let you get away with a smaller house bank, although I still personally believe that a minimum of 400 ah in a house bank for those with refrigeration is the bare minimum to permit, as Mike V said, a frivolous weekend away with NO concerns about killing your batteries.  A larger bank also extends the life of your bank because you draw down a smaller percentage of the total capacity.

We have written, as all the Mikes and others of you know, lots about this subject.  And, it's just great that so many have read it - most, if not all of it!  

Please also note that Jim's very happy with his batteryshack alternator.  They come with BOTH internal and external regulation.  Your boat, your choice.  (Now, where have we heard that before?  

Unfortunately, some of the direct links between subjects on electrical systems that I put into the earlier electrical system posts didn't transfer over from Infopop to this board, so it makes it hard to use some of the cross references that I previously posted on electrical systems.  Sorry about that, but the information is all still there, and based on this topic, looks like more's comin' our way.  Not a bad subject, and fun to discuss.

RECHARGING DEAD BATTERIES

Mike S, while I was looking for that steadily diminishing law of returns in Calder, I came across the answer to your other question about recharging dead batteries.  I knew I'd seen it somewhere.

Page 47, second edition.  "Is There Life After Death?"

Recommends equalizing the batteries on first charge.  With your new Statpower True Charge Xantrex (or whatever they're calling them these days) 40, you should have an equalization setting.  I recommend you do that to bring your batteries back.  There's a whole page on the subject.  I've posted a reference link on your earlier post to get here.

Mike

I know you've done YOUR homework.  

You may be the only C34 with a Perkins.  IF you have a Motorola alternator, the Balmar's will fit with just the little shaving of the bracket IF your bracket is similar to the Universal alternator brackets.  I remember your picture episode awhile ago, but haven't looked it up to see.

Your other choice, given that outrageous $720 for the alternator and regulator, is to use Jim Moe's source for the alternator for a big $120, plus a regulator which should run around $250.  I bought Jim's recommended alternator and I also have a Max Charge ready to install, but have been busy with re-impregnating (not personally   ) our mainsail at Sail Care, doing boom related fixes and haven't gotten around to it.  The alternator is a direct match physically to the Motorola, it's a rebuilt inside a Delco case.

I also have the specific reference to Jim's alternator source, and Paul Elissio posted it awhile back.  Seems that Jim wrote the article, gave a draft to Paul who posted it on the board.  Jim finished it with a bit of help from me in editing, and sent it to be published in Mainsheet as a feature Tech article.  The folks at Mainsheet declined.  Don't get me started...

I just emailed it to you directly.  In fact, if the bozos, whoops, folks at Mainsheet won't do it, then I'll ask Mark to do it on Projects.