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Messages - Alain P.

#1
Main Message Board / Re: Anchors.
April 22, 2007, 03:17:54 PM
Quote from: Ray & Sandy Erps on April 12, 2007, 07:39:17 PM
I think the first time you anchor with your Rocna you'll be  surprised by its setting characteristics. 

http://www.svintothelight.com/Feb0706.html


The new Rocna was covered with a huge clump of mud/sand/grass

The other thing of note that happened during this time period was that we experienced our first "anchor dragging" incident.  On Saturday (Feb 4) we had a strong frontal passage with winds 25 knots, gusting to 35 knots.  That combined with pretty rough water conditions in the bay made things 'a bit dodgy', as our British/South African friends would say.  We were out in the cockpit as the storm really got going and noticed a neighboring boat moving at a rapid pace to the rear toward another boat. 

The owners of the boat that was dragging anchor had gone ashore earlier in the day, and the boat that was getting ready to get hit only had the teenage son of the family that cruises on the boat aboard.  I was getting ready to go help the boy 'defend' his boat and try to stop the other boat from dragging when I noticed that we were closer to our neighbor to the stern than we had been earlier......

we had dragged and were dragging.  

We were dragging slowly vs. the other boat, which looked like someone was driving the boat swiftly in reverse.  Dahleen and I started our motor and motored into the wind of the storm for about an hour and a half, until is subsided a little and we could re-anchor. 

AS I PULLED THE ROCNA UP TO RE-ANCHOR, IT WAS COVERED WITH A HUGE CLUMP OF MUD/SAND/GRASS, SO RATHER THAN DIGGING IN, IT WAS PLOWING ALONG THE GRASSY BOTTOM.   A grassy bottom is not the ideal holding ground to anchor in, but you play the cards you are dealt. 

During the course of the storm, 5 boats around us all dragged and had to either put out a second anchor or redeploy their primary anchor.  We found a patch of sand to drop the primary anchor in and also put out our secondary, a 33 lb. Bruce.  I also increased our scope to 9 to 1.  I think this will work for all but the worst of storms. 
#2
I didn't came to this forum for a long time, as I was traveling and it is not always easy to find cyber-cafés in South America..

I fully agree with reedbr when  he says: Sometimes anchors are like religion.  Everybody has their own beliefs.

Reading the whole thread, I've seen two different opinions.. the conservative one.. and the evolutive one.. Please allow me to give here my own opinion, and I apologize if this will be often opposed to the one of many participants:

If I first fully agree with you,reedbr, I don't agree anymore when you say :  "Danforth It is my primary and I sleep well at anchor" – NEVER use a Danforth as a main anchor.. and don't sleep if you are using one.. As Stu Jackson righly says :
Danforths usually can't reset after a current shift. .Danforth can make a good secondary anchor, but not a main one..

I also disagree with gtrbone "Bruce/Bruce-Type anchors did the best for the money" are you selecting your anchors only on the "money" criteria?? Or do you want the BEST anchor to equip your boat??.

I also disagree (quite often) with Ron Hill – "Make sure that you use a swivel between the anchor and the chain so the anchor can do it's OWN thing!! You also mentioned the swivel/s which is VERY important" Beware that most swivels doesn't have at all the same breaking strength that the one of your chain.. They often will be the "weak" link.. and, with the exception of bearing swivels, they will NEVER turn under load..

Ted Pounds Many serious cruisers use all chain. - No Ted.. If they are really serious,  they should always insert any "elastic" line,, either by using a mixed line (Chain & rope) or by using an efficient  snubber..

Ron Hill I also send down a 15 lb. sentinel – Most of you will learn a lot about your anchoring rode on: http://alain.fraysse.free.fr/sail/rode/rode_b.htm and it is said that a sentinel has only a marginal effect.. Then I fully agree with Chris Martinson instead on using a sentinel,....use about 30 feet of chain, much easier to handle and better to avoid chafing the rope on the seabed..

Again Ron I disagree with you when you say..  I like the Bruce not only for it's holding.. as the Bruce is one of the anchors with the lowest holding..

Mike and Joanne Stimmler If anyone knows of a source for Bruce anchors please post it. Hi Mike and Joanne.. There is no more source for the genuine Bruce.. as Bruce did stop the manufacturing.. and they didn't stop because of the availability of cheaper clones, but because they know that this type of anchor is now obsolete..

John Langford What about the Lewmar Claw which is the same as a Bruce but very reasonably priced.
Gary I purchased the stainless 33 lb model...it looks to be well made and very close to the original Bruce.

No clones are exactly similar to the genuine Bruce, and a minor change can completely change the overall behavior of one anchor.. and if the clones are cheaper.. this is because they are manufactured in China.. and the quality of the steel used can be questionable??

Then I can't more agree with Ray & Sandy Erps "I was leaning towards one of the new generation anchors,.. I used to worry whether our anchor would set on the first try or not.  Now I worry whether we'll be able to get the anchor back up after setting because it sets so firmly. "[


And with mainesail "The Delta is not a bad anchor but also nowhere as good as either a Rocna, Spade or Manson Supreme. It's just that the Spade's, Manson Supreme's and Rocna's are excellent anchors and after driving a BMW I could never see going back to a Pontiac if you know what I mean.."

And I would never exchange my BMW back for a Pontiac (Although some years ago, the Pontiac was one of the best car available..)
:D
#3
I'm very pleased to inform you that the book:
« THE COMPLETE ANCHORING HANDBOOK " will soon be available.

For more info, please have a look at:

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Anchoring-Handbook-Alain-Poiraud/dp/0071475087

Good reading to all..

Alain