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Messages - GB

#1
Main Message Board / Re: prop patina
May 09, 2022, 06:17:20 AM
Jim -

Just did the annual prop cleanup, which reminded me of this thread. Did switching to zinc anodes make a difference for you?

Thanks,
Greg
#2
Main Message Board / Re: prop patina
October 24, 2020, 11:17:38 PM
Jim -

After a season's use in Lake Michigan w/Magnesium anodes, we get a similar deposit on the prop as shown in the picture.  The prop polishes up great in the Spring, so I haven't worried about it.

I came across this link (also of a freshwater boat in Lake Michigan) that indicates the deposit is a Calcareous Coating (https://www.corrosionpedia.com/definition/200/calcareous-coating):
https://jeanneau.proboards.com/thread/5256/prop-shaft-calcium-deposits
#3
Thanks to all for the comments.

I just wanted to follow up and let everyone know how this all turned out.

Basically, we ended up replacing the entire drive train -- new Gori 3-blade folding propeller, cutless bearing, SS shaft, coupler, and new motor mounts (K75s all around).

The vibration and sound is significantly better.  We can motor at higher RPMs without a problem and the companion way steps don't rattle and shake your teeth anymore.

As others have mentioned with respect to the K75 motor mounts, there is a lower RPM range that produces vibration, but throttling up quickly through the range solves the issue quickly and it's very smooth from there on.

Overall, we're very happy that we did the work.
#4
Last summer the boat had a lot of excessive vibration when underway and we've been working with the boat yard on correcting the issues.

We're in the process of replacing the cutlass bearing and the feathering propeller is being sent off for reconditioning (the yard has indicated that inside the housing is worn and the blades are no longer as secure as they should be).  As part of this process, the yard used a dial indicator on the prop shaft and found a slight bend of .025.  However, they've stated this is within the allowable spec of .030, so replacing it is a toss up.  I am a tad confused as Mainesail's comment in the following thread indicates a much smaller margin if I understand correctly:

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,2834.msg39289.html#msg39289

Can anyone clarify?  Or have some advice on whether to replace the prop shaft or not at this time?  The current shaft is stainless steel of some sort, so someone replaced the original bronze shaft at some point in time (maybe when the feathering prop was put on?).

My second question concerns the coupling.  I've read threads on this board and others, but it's unclear to me whether it's worth spending more for a flexible coupling at this time or whether the rigid will suffice.  For the rigid coupling, does it matter if the coupling is OEM or will one of the aftermarket couplings work fine (there seems to be a considerable cost difference between the two)?  In terms of the flexible coupling, is the Federal Marine flexible coupling still the recommended route?  For folks that have replaced the coupling, would they make a different choice than the one they made?  Please note that there is a PSS installed. 

Any insight into the above questions is greatly appreciated.
#5
Thanks to all for the suggestions.  Here's an update...

Surveyor - She thinks the keel bolts corroded, expanded, and cracked the lead.  She confirms my suspicions of a "disguise" and thinks we can seal the cracks in the short term with epoxy as was done previously while pursuing a long term fix of dropping and fixing the actual keel before rebedding.  She suggested I speak with MarsKeel for another perspective as well as have a conversation with the previous owner for some monetary or labor recourse.

Gerry Douglas - I was able to reach Gerry at the Florida factory and am absolutely amazed & grateful that he takes owner's calls.  Gerry had a very hard time believing that the keel was actually cracked until he saw the pictures.  His advice is to ground out the cracks more, send him pictures, and let him know what we find.  He assured me that we can patch the keel back up and is not of the belief that water came down the keel bolts but wouldn't speculate further without more information.

MarsKeel - Indicated that Catalina made the keels themselves back then and wants me to ask Gerry if there was an upper core added to the top of the keel that might be the source of the rust as opposed to the keel bolts.  (I wonder if this is similar to the two steel lift points that Indian Fall's mentioned?)  He confirmed frost damage but did not think it could be safely patched in anyway and did not think I should grind more.  His advice is to drop the keel and send it to MarsKeel for repair.


I've got an email into Gerry about the upper core and will wait to hear back until I grind.  Frankly, I am sheepish about grinding deeper into the keel and enlarging the crack.  Maybe Gerry figures it's compromised anyway, so what's the harm?  I am guessing that he wants to see how deep it is, if there are any voids/water pockets, etc.

How aggressive would you guys be with the grinding?  The old epoxy will have to come out regardless, so I am fine removing that, but not so sure about going beyond that.
#6
Thanks Stu.

1) I don't have any pictures of the keel bolts handy, but can get some the next time I go up to the boat.  From what I remember, the keel bolts above this area are clean and there is some sort of white caulk underneath these particular washer/nuts.
2) I am sure it's over 1-2 inches deep in spots (not across the entire crack), but don't really know.  I was so upset when I saw it that I stopped grinding for fear of making things worse since I wasn't sure how to proceed and can't "ungrind".  There is at least one spot wherein the filled epoxy is gone that I can probably get a screwdriver or something in there to get a better idea.  My fear is that the lead is cracked all the way to the keel bolt.  I don't see how this could of happened otherwise unless the keel was damaged in some other way.
3) Yes - the crack is only on one side.  I saw a rust like mark on the other side that wasn't there before, so I ground it away but found the lead to be fine.
4) Thanks!  I did see Indian Falls' keel rebed write-up as well as the diagrams Ken received from Catalina that are both posted here:  http://c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Hull
5) Yes.  I was going to call the Catalina phone # since I thought I read somewhere on here that he doesn't do email.  Is there a better way to get in touch with him?  I also emailed MarsKeel for their opinion.

Thanks again,
Greg
#7
Main Message Board / Crack in Lead Keel - NO SMILE
April 09, 2017, 01:46:10 PM
Three other guys & myself purchased a 1988 Catalina 34 in the Fall of 2016.  The information that we found on this board was invaluable throughout the process and we're very thankful to all contributors.  Unfortunately, we've come across an issue that need some advice on... 

The boat DID NOT have a Catalina "Smile" and had many of the critical upgrades that we could see completed plus an owner that was very aware of this board/critical upgrades, which is a big reason we purchased this particular boat.  However, there were two unusual streaks mid-keel that looked almost like a rust or epoxy stain.  The surveyor did not detect any moisture there so she thought it was ok and the previous owner indicated that he filled pinholes in that area with six-ten epoxy per the advice of a local Catalina dealer.  Although the area bulged out slightly, I simply attributed that to a poor epoxy job and we ended up purchasing the boat.  I didn't think much of it until over the winter when the area split open vertically.  I have since ground the area out to gain a better view and discovered a large vertical crack in the actual lead.  You can see epoxy in the cracks, which leads me to believe that the previous owner filled more than just pin holes...

While researching the issue, I came across this White Paper from MarsKeel:
https://marskeel.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Keel_Repair_White_Paper.pdf

The casting deterioration section in the white paper that describes the lead keel swelling seems applicable to me.  My read of it is that at least part of the crack goes straight to the keel bolt, so at least this keel bolt is compromised and likely to get worse next winter should the boat be stored outside again.  Consequently, we are trying to determine what our next steps should be.  Any advice as to possible solutions (short & long term) is appreciated.  Ideally, we would like to sail the boat this summer and attack any long term fix next fall while the boat is on the hard for the winter.

I've attached pictures of the areas in question back in the fall for perspective, this Spring before grinding, after grinding from afar, and a close up of the crack.  (Please note that you may have to rotate some of the pictures as the rotation appeared different depending upon the program that I used to view the image -- the crack & streaks run vertical as far as orienting the picture)  Other information that might be pertinent is that the boat has been in freshwater its entire life as far as we know.  The farthest front and back keel bolts have some surface rust on them but the middle ones are all clean.

Any insight is greatly appreciated and thanks again to all who contribute here.