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Messages - Michael

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1
The preceding posts should be corrected as indicated in the new [June 17, 2012] introduction to the first post above.  Also, Stu Jackson and Maine Sail may have puzzled over my assertion that on the Guest battery selector the Common terminal lay behind the Both switch position.  In fact, it doesn't.  It lies (at least on the type of Guest battery selector switch aboard Hali), counter-intuitively, behind the "2" switch position. 

2
Main Message Board / Re: 6v 230A Golf Cart Batteries?
« on: June 05, 2012, 11:54:44 AM »
We were uncomfortable about not boxing our new golf cart batteries. (Thoughts of battery acid sloshing around the bilge.)

We got two heavy plastic battery boxes sold by Interstate.  Each holds two Interstate GC2 golf cart batteries snugly, end to end.  The boxes, placed side by side in the battery compartment, store the four golf cart batteries that now make up Hali's house battery bank.

We have no technical details about the boxes (because we found nothing about the boxes on the Interstate website but learned about them through the dealer).

The boxes work well in the battery compartment space available (under the aft seat at the salon table, just forward of the galley in our 1997 Mark II), perhaps most importantly by fitting in without requiring re-location of the hot water tank.

The battery box outside length is 21 1/2"  and outside width is 7 3/4".

We didn't measure the height because, in order to fit the boxes into the space available, we cut their height down anyway, to 4.5".  This was a five minute job with a table saw.  A little touch up with a grinder (a file would also do) and, presto, a nice smoth upper edge to the boxes.

We threw away the box lids, which was a shame, as they had good cutouts (as did the top of the boxes) for battery cables. 

The bottom of each box has three depressed longitudinal channels, one down the centre, and one near each side. You can screw the box to the battery compartment floor using wood screws in these depressed channels, with washers to spread the load.  Located in the channels, the screw heads don't come into contact with the bottom of the batteries.  We haven't actually done this yet and haven't decided what we will use to seal around the screws to prevent any spilled battery acid from escaping into the bilge.  Suggestions?

We are still considering how best to hold the golf cart batteries down.  The single 2" x 4" running fore and aft across the top of our old 4D batteries will no longer be sufficient.  The current plan is to cut the 2" x 4" down to a 2" x 3" (so that it will fit between the cell caps of the outboard and inboard batteries and restrain all four golf cart batteries along one edge of each), and then have velcro straps over the batteries and under the battery boxes.  We suppose battery acid may eat up the velcro over time, so one or two more wood retaining bars may be in order.

Pics may follow if the installation looks okay.

 




3
Main Message Board / Re: IPad Navigation Apps
« on: June 04, 2012, 11:19:03 PM »
We have used Navionics for iPAD and iPhone for about a year now, including for three weeks of cruising north from Vancouver into the Broughton Archipelago and return last summer.  The iPAD version provides better resolution on a larger screen.  But they are both terrific.  We like to have two iPADs aboard, so that there is a spare one, fully charged, at all times.  You get five downloads of the software for one price, which suits our multiple-owner boat well.  The iPAD GPS works terrifically.  You might suspect that we are huge fans of this hardware and application, which is true.  After paying far more for a tiny Garmin chart plotter a couple of years earlier, we couldn't be happier to have found the larger-screen iPAD with Navionics software. We pass it around the cockpit, take it below, lash it in place at the helm station, run it in portrait or landscape, zoom in and out by spreading our fingers on the screen, track our vacation...We have begun using it to produce tracks of our 'round the buoys races, turning it on when we cross the start line and turning it off when we cross the finish line. We plan our summer cruises on it.  Some of our enthusiasm for it may reflect our late adoption, on the iPAD for the first time, of navigation software.  Still, the software seems to come into its own on the iPAD, with its built in (at least on the 3G models) GPS and "spreadable" scaling, in a way that it doesn't on a PC.

4
Main Message Board / Re: Companion Way Hatch - Vinyl Trim
« on: June 04, 2012, 10:56:41 PM »
Here was our solution:

Supplier:    McMaster-Carr
      Email: cle.sales@mcmaster.com
      Website: www.mcmaster.com
      Phone: 330-995-5500
      Fax: 330-995-9600

Product:   One (1) roll of
      Part number 76445A762
Description: Strong & Slippery UHMW Polyethylene Tape 3/4" Width x 5 yards Length, .0115" total thickness
Unit price: about $6.10

5
The following is a lightly edited exchange of emails regarding the Xantrex XC3012 battery charger’s feasibility for use with absorbed glass matt (“AGM”) batteries.  It also touches on the use of that model of battery charger with flooded lead acid batteries (4Ds and golf cart).  A question, possibly unresolved in the exchange, is whether the XC3012 could be used satisfactorily with AGM batteries if the AGM batteries are combined in one house bank (a combination of batteries often recommended at this site - see for example postings by Maine Sail) and the XC3012 is not used to charge any other battery bank.  The exchange took place in May, 2012, between John Nixon and Michael MacLeod and was a follow up to John’s battery charger evaluation, the full text of which, as posted by Stu Jackson, is at http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4352.0.html.

Michael: Towards the end of your [evaluation of] the merits of the [Xantrex] XC3012/5012 [models of battery charger] you had mentioned that you had some reservations about the use of that charger with AGM batteries, that you were in communications with Xantrex about your concerns, and that you would or might post more about the issue when you knew more.  Or at least that is my recollection.  Did you ever post more on that issue?  I have searched but not found it if you did. If you did not post more but would be willing to do so that would be great.

John: I never got around to following up on that posting, but this will encourage me to do so :-)
 
Basically, Xantrex agreed that it did what I complained that it did with AGM batteries, swapped out the XC3012 I bought for the evaluation with a Truecharge2 40 amp unit with remote control panel in exchange, and said "Thank you for your observations and concerns. Now go away...."
 
I might poke a stick in their eye again just for the fun of it to see if they have changed their story any in the intervening time since my last discussion. I'll let you know either directly or via an update to the article.

Michael: Thank you for getting back to me on this point.  We had bought the XC3012 just before you did your review of it ...and were relieved when you came out somewhat more in favour of it than you had anticipated.  But now thinking about going to AGMs, it has given us pause!  I don’t know what your specific concern was but will watch c34.org in hopes of seeing your follow up.

John: In a nut shell, once the AGM batteries are fully charged, the pulsing action of the charge rotation/multiplexing between banks creates dangerously high float voltages on the AGM batteries. I watched "float" voltages of up to 16 to 17 volts on each bank of AGM batteries. In addition, the high float voltage drove the charger crazy.... The whole charging process in software was not well conceived.
 
Xantrex finally did admit that they never actually tested the charger with anything other than flooded cells during its development process, regardless of the battery setting. As a result, it had issues with both AGM and Gel technologies. The lower recharge efficiency and much higher self discharge characteristics made a poorly conceived multiplexed pulsing charge idea appear to work with flooded cells but not with newer technologies.

Michael: Thank you and yikes!  This may rule out our getting AGM batteries so long as we are using the XC3012.  I may investigate golf cart batteries as an alternative to our 4Ds.

John: An excellent choice if you don't mind caring for them properly: regular FULL recharge, periodic equalization cycle, proper electrolyte level ( i.e. - don't over-fill with water ), and use of only distilled water.
 
If you plan on keeping them for a while, look at the Trojan T105 battery. 220 a-hr @ 20 hr rate, which means usually about 10-20% more than a single 4D flooded cell.

Michael: Thank you for that further information, John.  I think we are likely either to stay with 4Ds (the devil we know) or go to golf cart batteries (if the battery compartment space is adequate for those batteries and battery boxes, since I don’t fancy a spill of acid into the bilge).  In either case, I am considering linking all the house batteries into a single bank instead of running, as we have been, two banks.  In this respect, do you have any reason to think that the fluctuating charge cycle of the XC3012 (alternating fairly frequently between charging bank 1 and bank 2) is problematical when charging flooded lead acid batteries?
 
John: The difference between the 4D and the pair of golf cart batteries ( i.e. - Trojan T105) will be primarily the height of the 6 volt batteries versus the 4D. The 6 volts are about 2 -3 inches taller depending upon what terminals are on the comparison batteries. The 6 volts are also shallower in horizontal depth, and stacked long way end to end will be just slightly longer then the base dimension of the 4D. The 4D has a significant difference between its top overall length versus its bottom overall length. If the battery box area currently has vertical walls (rather than tapered like a plastic battery box) each pair of 6 volts will fit in the same location as a single 4D. Then, it's just a matter of height.
 
I would definitely put all of the house batteries in one single bank, and then have a smaller dedicated starting battery. The XC3012 will handle that OK. The multiplexed charging scheme poses no danger to the flooded cell batteries either as multiple house banks or a single house bank and a starting bank.

Michael: Thank you very much, John.

I think we will go with golf cart batteries if we can make them fit (it is going to be very tight as we have the XC3012 dual shunt located at the top of the port end of the battery compartment under the aft salon table seat) or stay with the 4Ds if we can’t make the golf cart batteries fit.
 
We already have a separate starting battery not connect at all to the shore powered charging system and, as it is plugging along perfectly after four years, we will probably leave it that way, to be charged only when the engine is running.
 
Do you think we should post this exchange to the c34.org bulletin board?  I certainly found it helpful.
 
John: Feel free to post it as I certainly have no objection.

Michael: Thanks, John.  I will do that. Perhaps someone else can benefit from our exchange.

Michael: Sorry to bother you again, John.  An after-thought.  Would it be feasible/sensible to go to AGMs but avoid the problem of the XC3012’s buggy software by linking the house batteries all into one bank, so they all charge together and there is no cycling between banks?  We were thinking of putting all the house batteries into one bank anyway and, as indicated in my previous email, I do not plan to link the starting battery to the XC3012 anyway.

John: No, I don't think it wouldn’t [sic] avoid the problem created by the charging methodology, but in retrospect I don't think that I tried that specifically. The XC series will learn to "disqualify" banks that either aren't present or no longer need charging. I suppose that if only 1 bank was installed, it might stop the initial current pulse that is used to determine if a bank is present on each output, and if that happened, it might be OK.

I have no way to test that any more, however.

Michael: Interesting.  We have the XC3012 set up now on only one house battery, because the other house battery died and I disconnected it.  My impression is that the XC3012 now charges the one battery full time and does not hunt and peck for any other battery to charge.  Perhaps I will observe it for a while to see whether this is so.  Thanks again, John.

John:  In theory that is what it should do. I wish now I would have explored that condition when I had the unit in evaluation.



6
Stu and Maine Sail,

Thank you both for your clarification of the common post issue. [As a result, I have posted a warning at the start of my first post above.]

MS, thank you for the closer-up photo of your wiring labels. The use of clear heatshrinks over the labels is a great idea. I had taken to putting my TZ labels around the wires with the label tails adhering to themselves, in order to make sure the labels remained in place, which they did not always do when run along a wire. A problem with that orientation is that part of the description on the label is illegibly hidden from view behind the wire. Your heatshrink method seems altogether better, ensuring the label remains in place along the wire and entirely visible. As for a labelling convention for wiring, you may have the advantage of labelling only for someone who knows your system or has a wiring diagram, because it appears (although I may have this wrong) that you label each wire with the name of its remote source but not with the name of its local connection. In the absence of a wiring diagram when I started labelling, I adopted  a wordy convention of describing a wire on its label with two names, the first being the name of the wire's local connection and the second being the name of the wire's remote connection. Example: "Battery selector C post <--> Battery interconnect stb term".  But these labels are long winded and need to be printed in small type!

7
Maine Sail and Stu,

Nice to be back, too, and thank you for your comments, diagrams, and references. I will work my way through them.

With respect to your comment about labelling, MS, how true that most boats, at least ones I have seen, don't have labelled wiring.  That was certainly the case with the wiring aboard Hali until last year when we got a label-maker that attaches to a laptop. Now the problems are to resist labelling everything and, for wiring, to adopt a relatively consistent, succinct, and coherent labelling convention.  Stu's admonitions regarding making a wiring diagram seemed to grow louder and more relevant the longer we put off doing it. Even labelling would have been easier (making shorter labels possible) if a wiring diagram, to which the labels could have made implicit reference, had been made up. MS, it looks like you adopted some sort of succinct labelling convention on the labels shown in your picture above but I can't blow up the picture enough to know what it is. We haven't finished labelling Hali's wiring, nor finished her wiring diagram, so any suggestions you might make would not be wasted on us (although I apologize for not searching the message board for this topic before raising the question).

Regarding your wiring diagram above, MS, it is beautiful.  What tool are you using? Visio?

Also regarding that diagram, I wondered about your depiction of the C post. Isn't the C post (which I take to be what I am calling the common terminal) generally the BOTH terminal? (But I see Stu references an article you have written about the 1-2-Both switch, so I had better read that before asking anything more.)

Again, thank you both.





8
NEW INTRODUCTION 17 June 2012 - Unfortunately, the following article now requires a major correction (in addition to the one in the next paragraph), and, if anyone knows a good recipe for removing egg from a face, please send it along. My big assumption in this article, that the location of the terminals on the type of Guest battery selector switch aboard Hali (for which I could not find a diagram) were the same as those in a Perko battery selector switch (for which I did find a diagram), turns out to have been wrong.  In the result, the conclusion I drew that the Guest terminal had been mis-wired was unjustified, and the follow-on conclusions I drew about that mis-wiring causing battery problems were foolish. I would like to delete the article, but it attracted comments that may be helpful to others -- and it may not be entirely useless to see how foolish another C34 owner can be. So the article survives to provide context -- and pain!

[Please mentally correct my following article in light of Maine Sail's later clarifying note that the common post/terminal (on the backside) of the battery selector switch is not the same thing as the Both position (on the front) of the battery selector switch, and that the Both position is not a terminal.  The Guest battery selector switch described in this article has its common post/terminal immediately behind the Both selector position and, in this sense, differs from the diagram for a battery selector that Maine Sail provides.]

Like most boats, Hali is blessed by the presence of angels and cursed by the presence of gremlins.  We have discovered that gremlins often operate in pairs or gangs, so that when you think you have solved a problem, it recurs and you find another gremlin laughing at you.

Since we acquired Hali -- our 1997 C34 Mark II -- in 2007, she has had a battery gremlin.  The diet of this gremlin has consisted of a battery or two every year or two.
  
In case it might help others apparently afflicted with original mis-wiring at the battery selector switch, this is our story of (we hope) finally catching this gremlin.

Hali came to us equipped with:

1.     an automotive starting battery ;
2.    two 4D flooded lead acid batteries as house batteries;
3.    an old battery charger;
4.          a Marinco Guest Off-1-Both-2 battery selector switch (“Guest”); and
5.          an electrical-relay-operated battery isolator/interconnect switch in the charging wire between the engine alternator (via the starter motor) and the Guest.

Over the years, sometimes prodded by discovering dead and dying batteries, we:

6.   replaced the old battery charger with a Xantrex XC3012 battery charger;
7.    added a Link 20 battery monitor;
8.    added a “normally off” 15 pounds per square inch oil pressure switch in the alternator-to-Guest charging circuit, so that the alternator would charge the house batteries (in addition to the starting battery to which it is directly connected) once the engine had started and engine oil pressure had risen to at least 15 psi;
9.    a switch, parallel to 8 and connected to 5, that is usually left off so as not to connect the house batteries to the engine for starting purposes but that can, by setting it to “On”, link the house batteries to the engine if the house batteries are needed to help start the engine.

In making these upgrades, we did not create our own wiring diagram or check the original wiring connections on the Guest. (Stu Jackson would undoubtedly say these omissions were bad mistakes. We would now agree.)

The battery gremlin brought matters to a head this year when, for the second year in a row, he ate Hali’s #1 house battery and began eating #2 house battery.

In previous years, we had guessed that similar problems had been caused by:

(a)    a defective battery charger – hence the purchase of 6 and our first round of new 4D batteries;
(b)   the electrical drain of a relay switch – hence our installation of 7, 8, and 9; and
(c)    a bilge pump that operated more than we realized – hence our installation of a bilge pump cycle counter (which established the bilge pump was not running frequently).   

In retrospect, it is apparent that in those previous years we had been only guessing at the identity of the gremlin and that we had thrown money at imagined fixes instead of getting to the bottom of the problem.

This year, it was time to get serious and trouble-shoot the whole electrical system.

We learned how to use a multimeter.  We made a wiring diagram.

Still, our gremlin took days to come into view.

Along the way, we realized that we did not really understand how the Guest worked.

We never did find a manufacturer’s diagram for the Guest but, based on a diagram for a Perko battery selector switch that is assumed to operate similarly, it appears that the Guest should have been connected up as follows:

•   Guest terminal “1” connects to house battery #1 positive terminal
•   Guest terminal “Both”  is the common terminal to which the “charging circuit” from the engine attaches;
•   Guest terminal “2” connects to house battery #2 positive terminal

But how was our Guest wired up?

A wire properly connected Guest terminal “1” to the positive terminal of house battery #1.  But the wire from the positive terminal of house battery #2 terminated at Guest terminal “Both” instead of at Guest terminal “2”; and the engine charging wire connected to Guest terminal “2” instead of to Guest terminal “Both”.

This mis-wiring, which seems to have been with the boat since she was built, had unfortunate consequences.

When Guest “1” was selected, no charging current from the engine ever reached house battery #1.  (With the battery selector at that setting, we believe normally a connection would be made between the Guest terminal “1” and the Guest common (Both) terminal, with the result that if the switch was correctly wired, a charging voltage would reach house battery #1 by the route: engine alternator to Guest terminal Both to Guest terminal 1 to house battery #1 positive terminal.  But as the charging wire connected to Guest terminal #2, no charging voltage reached house battery #1 when Guest “1” was selected.)

All was well insofar as charging the house batteries from the engine was concerned if the engine was running and Guest “Both” was selected, because then the Guest connected, as it should, all three terminals (1-Both-2) together, and both house batteries #1 and #2 received a charge.

But, if the engine was not running and no shore power was running the 110 volt shore powered battery charger and Guest “Both” was selected and the house battery #1 was run down – a set of circumstances that occurred when anchored-out while cruising -- house battery #2 would try to charge house battery #1, and the gremlin who had attacked house battery #1 would begin destroying house battery #2.

We have speculated why the system was mis-wired in this way.

Our conclusion, which may be completely unfair to someone, is that the factory electrician pulled a short charging wire or cut it short, so that it could reach Guest terminal “2”, which is lower down on the Guest, but not reach Guest common (Both”) terminal, which is higher up.  Faced with the nuisance of pulling a new wire, the electrician (we speculate) chose the expedient work-around of connecting the wires to the "wrong" terminals.  But the wiring was only "wrong" if you didn't know the workaround and selected something other than Guest "Both".

For years, we had noticed that the shortness of all the major wires to the Guest severely limited how far the electrical panel (where the Guest is located) could be opened.  We were simply unaware of the electrician's work-around.  In our early days, we usually did select "Both",  but in recent years, we fed the gremlin by selecting Guest "1" and cut back on our use of shore powered battery charging.

Our solution this year, which wiring codes might not have allowed the Catalina electrician (assuming he was the culprit), has been to add a short pigtail onto the engine charging wire and re-wire the Guest correctly.  Now, the selection made on the Guest means what we had previously, intuitively but incorrectly, thought it meant.  If Guest “1” is selected and the engine is running, house battery #1 is being charged and house battery #2 is not being charged.  If Guest “Both” is selected and the engine is running, both house battery #1 and house battery #2 are being charged.  If Guest “2” is selected and the engine is running, house battery #2 is being charged and house battery #1 is not being charged.

Our conclusion that original mis-wiring is the gremlin responsible for Hali's dying batteries has not yet been proven by the passage of time.

We still fear the appearance of a battery-eating larger-brother gremlin.



9
Main Message Board / Re: "Crazy Ivan" the Autopilot
« on: January 16, 2011, 03:22:30 PM »
Brian - and anyone who has got this far because you have problems with the Autohelm Raytheon ST4000 Autohelm Wheel Pilot:

When mine - also on a 1997 MkII - went intermittently awol a couple of years ago, after considering the electrical possibilities, I took the drive unit apart and found the belt worn out.  Replacement belts are available from 1-800-859-7659, www.polybelt.com, 26 West First Street
Clifton, New Jersey, 07011. Item number BAT5-750AUTOST4000.  Price (then) $19.95. The belt I had met these criteria:

belt measures 750 mm in length; tooth groove is 1.16 mm in width; distance between tooth grooves is 3.22 mm. Groove is a U with a V at the bottom of it.  Belt is 2.93mm thick and 9.33 mm wide.  There are 150 sections between grooves in the full length of this belt.  The thickness of the belt from the back to the bottom on the V is 1.67mm.

Brian, it may well be that your problem is not so simply remedied - and perhaps if I read your postings more carefully I would know that - but someone else might find themselves reading through your interesting postings and have a belt problem, so for what its worth.

10
Main Message Board / Re: Oil Pressure read-out mystery
« on: August 27, 2008, 04:55:10 PM »
Thank you, Ron and Stu.

Yes, Stu, I agree the current oil pressure read-out is where we want it to be.  I'm just a little unsure that the gauge is reading accurately given its "half output" before.

Ron, I was using teflon tape willy-nilly, but did sometimes wonder where it went as there rarely seemed to be much left on the threads. 



   

11
Main Message Board / Oil Pressure read-out mystery
« on: August 23, 2008, 09:36:45 AM »
For a week or so after installation, an oil pressure gauge aboard Hali consistently indicated engine oil pressure of about 25 pounds per square inch at cruising RPM, and somewhat lower at idle.  During this time, the dual prong oil pressure switch (which feeds low oil pressure information to the instrument panel's low oil pressure idiot light and low oil pressure audible alarm) was disconnected from the audible alarm, becaused one of the two prongs was broken and, to prevent the alarm from sounding continuously, I disconnected its switched power feed in the instrument panel.

On installing a new oil pressure switch and reconnecting the audible alarm, the oil pressure gauge began reading 50 psi consistently at virtually all RPM settings (except zero RPM of course, at which the gauge correctly indicated no oil pressure) and the audible alarm did not sound when it should at startup.

There is discussion elsewhere on this board about the audible low oil pressure alarm not working (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,783.0.html), and I will chase down that problem separately. (I only mention it here as potentially relevant information regarding the pressure readout issue and not as a request for help.)

The fact that the oil pressure readout doubled makes me suspect a doubled voltage in the oil pressure send-oil pressure gauge system.  I suppose I could reverse the recent changes and check with a voltmeter but...

According to the Universal Service Manual (page 44) "during normal operation, the oil pressure will range between 40 and 60 psi"...so the current oil pressure readings do not make me unhappy but they are a bit suspect.

It seems to me likely that we have some Teflon tape (from the old oil pressure switch threads) in the engine oil and perhaps in the relatively narrow channels for oil at the bracket where the ports are for the oil pressure switch and oil pressure sender unit.

Other than has hinted at here, I have come up with no thoughts as to why the oil pressure readout has doubled (or, put another way, why it was not doubled earlier).  Any thoughts would be welcome.  (Some background to this post also appears in http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4477.0.html.)




12
Main Message Board / Re: Oil Pressure guage
« on: August 23, 2008, 08:43:16 AM »
Bob, I recently installed an oil pressure sender unit on Hali's M35B engine, which had two ports (only one of which was being used, by the oil pressure switch) for the installation of oil pressure measuring devices.

You might look at page 50 of the Universal Marine Diesel Engines Service Manual (Publication No. 200554 1st edition/January 2001) for the M-25XPB, M-35B, and M-40B where there is a drawing of the oil pressure measuring devices ports.  The drawing shows two ports.  Also, the drawing called "Oil pan assembly, oil pressure switch - M-25XPB" at page 5 of the Universal Marine Diesel Engine M-25XPB, M-35B, MM-40B Parts List (Publication No. 201021 1st edition December 2001) shows a two port setup, one with a plug in it (which is how I found the setup on Hali).  Even if your boat didn't have a dual port setup, it looks as though it would be a simple matter to obtain the two or three parts necessary to add the second port onto the bracket.

Assuming you already have two such ports for the installation of oil pressure devices, the installation of an oil pressure sender unit (by screwing it into the spare port I hope you have) is a relatively simple matter.   I bought an oil pressure sender unit and gauge from Lordco.  They came in one package and were made by Auto Meter Products Inc., 413 W. Elm Street, Sycamore, Illinois 60178 USA, tel. 815-899-0801.

On Hali, there is room to cut the new 2" outside diameter oil pressure gauge into the instrument panel at the helm station.  Whether there is room on your boat is something you might want to check before proceeding with the project.

Good luck with it.


13
Hi, Doug:

If it is any solace, we managed, not easily, but we managed, to remove the metal diesel fuel tank from Hali, hull #1352, a 1997 boat.  I do not recall (but that doesn't mean much!) Hali's having the two brackets you are describing, but I do recall that we needed to remove the cap of the fuel level sender unit and, I think, one other cap from the top of the tank towards the fore.  There were three of us working on the project, one usually from above, through the access plates, and one in the aft cabin.  I will pull my notes of the procedure and see if there is anything further in them that might help you and, if so, add the information as an addendum or new post here.

Good luck.

Addendum:  In case it helps, here are the notes of our removal of Hali's tank:

Saturday, May 19, 2007 – Lionel, Matt, Michael remove diesel fuel tank from port side of aft cabin. It was necessary to remove a ground line and vent hose from the top aft end of the tank and a fuel sender unit (float gauge) line and fuel feed hose and fuel return hose from the top forward end of the fuel tank and to pull two of the three hoses (fuel feed and fuel return) down below the base of the tank in order to get room to slide the tank off its shelf. The work was done with about 5 gallons of diesel fuel in the tank because we found it difficult to free the fuel feed hose on the engine side of the lift pump. (We had planned on having the fuel lift pump drain the tank but we abandoned that idea when we could not get the hose off a convenient barb.) TTD – Consider adding a drain somewhere in that system between the fuel lift pump and the engine.

Again, good luck, Doug.








14
Main Message Board / Re: Oil Pressure Switch for a M35B - urgent request
« on: August 06, 2008, 12:38:46 PM »
Hi, Stu, thank you for replying.

Oops, I should have said that I had contacted the Kubota dealer here (Frontier Power) and their parts department said that Kubota's oil pressure switch has only a single lead and that they don't make other (double prong) oil pressure switches.  He could only recommend that I take the oil pressure switch off the engine and bring it to him to look at...but he was not optimistic that they would have the same thing.

I've just called Kelly at Torresen.  She very kindly told me that supposedly a Chrysler part number 3619738 will work...but unfortunately Chrysler tells me that is not a good part number.  Unfortunately, Kelly didn't know who the OEM for the Universal/Westerbeke numbered part is.

I'll report in later if there is good news.

Thanks again. 

Addendum: Here was the temporary work-around:
(1) disconnected the audible alarm that was sounding all the time;
(2) jury rigged an oil pressure gauge visible from the helm so that we would know whether we have enough oil pressure.

Hali's M35B didn't have an oil pressure sender - just an oil pressure switch - but somewhat as appears on the drawing on page 50 of the Universal Service Manual referred to above there is a removable 9/16" hex head bolt plugging a hole where an oil pressure sender can be installed.  (The locations of the oil pressure switch and oil pressure sender are separate but near each other.)  The hole is a standard 1/8" NPT that most oil pressure senders and switches seem to be made in.  Removing the plug resulted in only a small ooze of oil before the sender (threads wrapped with some teflon) was screwed in, so it seems there isn't any need to drain the oil before doing this operation.  The oil pressure gauge and sender came as a kit, bought at Lordco. 

Further addenda:  The workaround bought time to order new oil pressure switches from Torresen.  (They were $14.41 each.  I bought 6 and the shipping to Vancouver by US Postal Service was $28.06....so not too bad for a supply that will last for several years.)  Thanks to everyone, including private messages and Roc (see next message), for help on this.

A search at the Torresen website indicates that this Westerbeke Part # 37323 (oil pressure switch) is referenced in (among others) the following online engine parts catalogs.
Universal M-25XPB OIL PAN ASSEMBLY, OIL PRESSURE SWITCH - M-25XPB
Universal ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
Universal M-35B / M-40B OIL PAN ASSEMBLY, OIL PRESSURE SWITCH - M-35B / M-40B

Torresen's contact particulars are:

Torresen Marine, Inc.
3003 Lake Shore Drive - Muskegon, Michigan 49441
Phone: 231-759-8596 - Fax: 231-755-1522

15
Main Message Board / Oil Pressure Switch for a M35B - urgent request
« on: August 06, 2008, 10:20:37 AM »
Can anyone help me out with the name of the original equipment manufacturer (and ideally the OEM's part number) for the double prong oil pressure switch that is used on the M35B engine?  The Universal/Westerbeke part number is 37323.  I would order it from Torresen but Hali is scheduled to go out on Friday and there isn't time.  A picture of the switch appears as item #17 in the "Oil Pan Assembly, Oil Pressure Switch - M35B/M40B" diagram on page 7 of the Universal Parts List (for Marine Diesel Engine M-25XPB, M-35B, M40B - Publication No. 201021 1st edition December 2001).  There is also a picture of the switch (not to be confused with a sender unit which some engines might also have) at page 50 of the Universal Service Manual (Marine Diesel Engines M-25XPB, M-35B, M-40B Publication No. 200554 1st Edition/January 2001).

Hali is equipped with a low oil pressure idiot (appropriately) light and low oil pressure audible alarm, which is why, I assume, there are two leads on the oil pressure switch, one to run the light and one to run the audible alarm.

If there was a work around for replacing this switch with something else, advice on that work around (Ron and Stu are you out there?) would also be welcome.

If I find the information elsewhere, I will post it back here in case anyone else has this same problem.

Regards and thanks for any offerings that might result.

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