Howdy folks... It's been a while since I posted because my searching chops are much improved, but I came up short on this one and surely I'm not the only one?
My boating experience is typically that I can fill the diesel tank until I see fuel in the fill hose, then I stop. In my C34, my vent is such that I start to make that pretty rainbow skim on the water that attracts so much attention before that happens. (Tongue firmly in cheek)
How do you guys fill the tank, in preparation for a trip or for winter storage, without making this mistake? Do you trust the gauge or have some other technique?
Mike
S L O W L Y
R e a l l y S L O W L Y
I use fuel consumption as a starting point, and know how much I need to put in before I start. Search on fuel+log.
I put a fuel level whistle on my vent line. It pretty much needs to be from a fuel pump as the quickly escaping air causes the whistle (stops when the level rises to the unit.)
There are kits you can suction cup to the hull below the vent to catch overflow. Basically a plastic container with lg suction cups that sits against the vent hole and I'm sure one could be home made.
I have my tank out for cleaning (and forced air heater installation) right now so I have my vent line off and was seriously considering the whistle... but there were three reviews on west marine and two of them said it didn't work, so I backed away. You have one and you can hear it? You'd do it again it sounds like?
Stu, I found your fuel log post and like the idea. I'm a bit of a spreadsheet junkie so this works well for me. One question though... when you have an entry on that log of "x" gallons, are you always refilling to the same point, presumably "full"? If so, how do you determine that... your fuel gauge or the spit out of your vent?
Mike I put it on when I was in bflo and filled from a marina pump, but I don't now so by cans there's too much air escaping for the whistle to do much.
K
Now I understand... As of yet, I haven't had the fuel pump option, just jerry cans. Might be nice to add one but might not help in my normal use case. Hmmm...
Quote from: rmbrown on February 19, 2018, 02:19:49 PM
Stu, I found your fuel log post and like the idea. I'm a bit of a spreadsheet junkie so this works well for me. One question though... when you have an entry on that log of "x" gallons, are you always refilling to the same point, presumably "full"? If so, how do you determine that... your fuel gauge or the spit out of your vent?
Mike, it's based on "full" trying very hard to not spill any out the vent. I'm hard of hearing, but concentrate when filling, and slow way down when I'm getting to 3/4 full. Since the spreadsheet shows the consumption to three figures, as long as it's in the range of 0.450 to 0.550, it means I've pretty much fueled up to "full." It is NOT an exact science, but has worked for me for 20 years. :D If one of the consumption numbers is drastically different, it simply means I haven't, for whatever reason. For example, on our cruise from SF to Vancouver Island in 2016, I began noting higher consumption levels because in one spot there was a Coast Guard ship right behind me when I was fueling and I was extremely cautious. In one of the next stops the gauge on the pump was wacko and it overflowed a tad, but then the consumption numbers steadied back to "normal," meaning I'd been under-filling. And in many cases, having the right amount of fuel meant whether or not we'd make it to the next harbor!!! After a while, you get the hang of it. My fuel gauge hasn't worked since 1999. :D
There's this option, but I can't attest to it's effectivity. https://www.parker.com/literature/Racor/Racor_Fuel_Filtration_-_LifeGuard_Fuel-Air-Separators_-_RSL0184.pdf
Down my to-do list.....
Craig
Guys : The whistle is not a panacea!! After overflowing too many times and it get clogged and stops whistling!!!
I do as Stu mentioned, calculate the amount of fuel. Then fill slowly (so there is little foam) and take a fuel diaper and put it on the fuel vent. You can feel the overflow and see the RED fuel. That also helps keep the fuel from staining the transom and port side.
If you are filling for winter storage fill a gallon or two less because the yard might block your boat more nose up. Also the couple of gallons less helps compensate for warmer day fuel expansion!!!!
A few thoughts
Thanks one and all!
Craig:
That thing is kinda slick. I'm tempted to get one while I'm in there anyway, although I haven't quite yet convinced myself it's worth the $90.
Anyone know if our vent lines are the 5/8 that seems to be standard? Or are we 1/2?
I have just purchased (and received) a Fuel Tank Vent from Amazon. very nice product.
Using it as part of my dry bilge system.
Paul
Adding more to the conversation:
https://www.boatus.org/findings/40/
Quote from: rmbrown on February 19, 2018, 05:06:29 PM
Anyone know if our vent lines are the 5/8 that seems to be standard? Or are we 1/2?
Mike
Here's the sizes I have written down for my 30, I would think yours would be the same.
Sheilds #
282194 5/8" fuel tank vent 9' replaced 2010
282251 5/16" tank > Racor filter > pump > fuel line filter 10' replaced 2010
282244 1/4" fuel line return to tank 9' replaced 2010
k
Awesome info... thanks one and all.
I've ordered the racor product since I'll be in there anyway, but I realize it is there to help, not to save me, so I'll implement Stu's log as well.
I appreciate it!
For what it's worth, it's on sale now at Defender for $84... Normally about $90 there and $125 at West Marine.
Mike- the Boat US testers had the Racor as their "staff pick". They also said it was the size of a grapefruit, so make sure you have enough clearance to install it. Also, the Racor instructions indicate it should be installed as close to vertical as you can get it — at no less than a 45 degree angle. Then of course there is the unpleasant reality of having to undo "everything" in the way to get to the vent line to install it.... Hmmmm.
Noah... I'm fortunate(?) in that everything is currently out of the way... I'm installing a heater in that space so fuel and water tanks are out and I've crawled in there a few times already. :)
Mike,
I like to keep it simple. When I want to top off the tank I just disconnect the overflow line from the transom fitting and put the line into an empty fuel can then fill until you get a splash in the can, after which I run the motor for a few minutes to burn the fuel in the line then reattach the overflow line.
You're kidding, right? Everytime you fill up you burrow back to the transom and disconnect the vent?
After over filling a time or two I just watch the fuel gage until it hits full. Then go slow from there.
I'm still a newbie as we're just now about to start our 3rd season. On our boat the fuel gauge shows 3/4 when about full and I don't feel comfortable with that. Anyway, I thought I'd share what I learned was an, I'm told, old-school technique:
Fill the tank with generally rapid flow rate with your ear close enough to the fill opening so you can hear the fuel going in to the tank and the air escaping. You wouldn't catch me doing this with gasoline! You'll notice an even pitch to the sound. When the tank is full the pitch will rise noticeably. When you hear the pitch rise stop. You may hear a couple gurgles but listen for the pitch change. The pitch change is the fuel beginning to get near or fill the hose to the tank. If you listen for it, it's hard to miss however, if you fill really slowly you wont hear it. I was nervous the first time but, an experienced fuel dock hand from my marina "coached" me. As a precaution, the admiral holds an absorbent cloth over the vent and will tell me if she gets dampness. That happened only once during the first season with no fuel getting in to the water. It is a little more challenging for me to hear if its windy or really noisy because my hearing isn't what it used to be. I do intend to get my fuel gauge squared away but, I'm not sure how much I'll trust it for fueling. I'll likely install the Racor Lifeguard in the future as well.
We only fill from Diesel Canisters and do not fill past the Nearly full mark.
That should keep us going under motor for about 30 hours, that's not going to happen!
Paul
Noah,
No, I'm not kidding. The only time I top up my tank is at the end of my boating season when the boat isn't going to get used very much(winter). So I usually only top the tank once a year, the rest of the time I usually run about 3/4plus which is plenty of fuel for my outings. I don't know what your aft locker is like(it must be jamb packed)but I just lift the lid, reach around with a socket driver, disconnect the line and stick it in the can, it takes a couple of minutes and about the same for the reverse.
Interesting! Mine isn't accessible via the lazarette because the propane tank is in the way. I have to empty the aft berth, remove the cushions, remove the plywood bulkheads, remove the aft water tank, the fuel tank or both, and then belly crawl 5' into the depths of hell!
Might be the difference between a MK 1 and the newer designs. My vent line is pretty easy to get to as well.
Jon
Remember the MK-1.5 has the separated stern lockers, hence the LP tank is where the vent is in the MK-1 lazerette.
k
Guys I use a paper towel over the vent hole when I am filling. My right hand is on the fuel fill, my left hand covers the vent with a paper towel. I have a 1986 mk1. Some of the Canada Marina I visit have an absorbing pad on a stick they are very picky about over flow. Charlie
What!!? No full serve fuel docks in Canada, where you can blame overflow/spills on the attendant???
Yes all the fuel docks in Canada are full service. All the ones I have been too will not let the boat owner pump fuel . Charlie
Mike,
There's another option you might consider. You can replace your vent line with a longer one that you can lead to an access point in the aft lazerette, then with that access point you can install a Y-valve with a line to a catch tank. I had considered doing this but with my locker arrangement it's just easier to pop the vent line off and on when I want to top up.
Too late... The racor lifeguard is installed. :)
Guys : At one time BoatUS had a container(bottle) that would fit over the fuel vent and take any overflow.
I bought one, but the problem was that the bolt heads for the aft port side chain plate would not allow you to mount it.
Guess I could have relocated the vent, but seemed tooo much work at the time!!
A thought
Ron,
I tried that overflow bottle to and ran into the same problem with the backstay bolts, that's why I finally settled on a catch tank system when I want to top off the tank. The Racor unit seems like an interesting option but I'm curious as to what happens when the fuel reaches the Racor unit. If it stops the fuel flow at the vent line and the tank is full wouldn't the fuel come back up the fill line?
I think that's the idea... that it backs up the fill and causes the pump to automatically turn off. I hope never to test the theory. :)
Mike- Where does the "device" sit in your vent line and did you have any trouble installing level or nearly level?
Quote from: rmbrown on February 27, 2018, 08:04:47 AM
I think that's the idea... that it backs up the fill and causes the pump to automatically turn off. I hope never to test the theory. :)
Folks, you really don't want to do this, you're right.
Look, it's rather simple: Your BOAT is NOT your CAR. Do NOT depend on the shutoff on the nozzle. Ever.
Just fill it manually, and slowly. Listen as it fills, you'll hear it.
You do NOT ever have to fill it to the brim. You have a 23 gallon tank, so if you're short a couple of ounces you will never notice.
Remember those old 1970s signs on gas pumps? Don't overfill, don't top off? Applicable here.
Whenever I hear of things like this (and I, too, looked at one of those exterior tanks, didn't buy it 'cuz I was right at the boat at a fuel stop that sold them; I found out it didn't work right away), I am reminded of
a solution in search of a problem.
Quote from: sailaway on February 22, 2018, 02:53:31 AM
Yes all the fuel docks in Canada are full service. All the ones I have been too will not let the boat owner pump fuel . Charlie
Charlie, maybe where you are in Canada, but not where I am. They will refuse to pump fuel, they will give you the nozzle to use yourself. Most likely a spill liability issue for them.
In the 20 years I've had our C34, I have never had anyone else pump my fuel, nor has anyone ever asked to do it for me. That's 18 years in the USA and two here.
Quote from: Noah on February 27, 2018, 08:16:09 AM
Mike- Where does the "device" sit in your vent line and did you have any trouble installing level or nearly level?
Noah... it sits in the vent line. It wants to be between 0 and 60 degrees from vertical. My fuel vent line runs over the top of the exhaust hanger and then down to my tank, at about a 45 degree angle so I installed it there. The weight of the thing makes it even closer to vertical... more like 30 I'd guess.
It was a piece of cake to install. Prior to installation, I tried to blow through it. I found the actuation of the check valve and it's sealing ability impressive. I'd never trust it to shut off a pump. I'll continue to operate as if it's not there. That said, I think it decreases the chances of my getting so caught up watching and listening at the fill that I miss a little dribble at the vent.
Guys : I agree with Stu. I have never had anyone ever require that they and not me to fill my tank!! If they did I'd tell them the that they are responsible to clean the over flow on the transom!!!
Again the best preventative is to hold a doubled over fuel diaper on the overflow vent!!
As I posted in the Mainsheet tech notes: your owners manual says the fuel capacity states 24 gal, but when I pulled the tank from the boat the label on the tank states 25 gal!!!
A few thoughts