This is the start of what I hope will be a very short thread. After much diagnosis and attempted fixes I've finally had to concede that my 31yo Adler Barbour needs to be replaced. I bit the bullet and ordered a new(Adler Barbour CU-100, VD-150) unit. It's due to arrive within the week. I'll post updates on how it goes.
I just received the evaporator in the mail which has lines that measure out at 15'. the compressor unit should arrive on Oct 3. Does anyone know if there is any advantage to insulating the lines, and if so should they be insulated together, separately, or one or the other?
Quote from: scgunner on September 30, 2017, 08:24:10 AM
I just received the evaporator in the mail which has lines that measure out at 15'. the compressor unit should arrive on Oct 3. Does anyone know if there is any advantage to insulating the lines, and if so should they be insulated together, separately, or one or the other?
https://www.google.com/search?q=insulating+ac+coolant+lines&oq=insulating+ac+coolant+lines&aqs=chrome..69i57.10243j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Google can sometime be our best friend!
kk
kk,
Thanks for the info. Looks like the big line(cold)is the one to insulate while leaving the small one(hot)bare. The compressor unit is arriving today so I'll start installation tomorrow.
As overkill, I'd probably cover (to protect) any "exposed" line but NOT together. That would be a counterproductive no-no.
ken
Quote from: scgunner on September 30, 2017, 10:39:33 AM
I don't use propane I stuck with the original CNG for simplicity and safety, that space in the aft lazeret is where I installed my tankless water heater.
Gunner- do you use CNG for cooking and LPG for water heating? Where do you store fuel for both?
Noah,
CNG for both. The CNG tank is in the original compartment(under the seat in the aft cabin). I teed off the supply line to feed the water heater.
I started the reefer replacement today. It took about an hour to remove the old unit. I spent another half hour cleaning and prepping the area for the new unit, you should see what was growing behind the evaporator after 31 years. I spent another hour insulating the evaporator lines followed by another hour feeding the lines thru the reefer wall behind the stove thru the aft cabin bulkhead to the CNG locker and finally under the aft cabin floor to the compressor platform. And, yes the coolant lines reach the compressor easily even though the connections are on far side of the compressor. Thermostat install came next, it was straightforward and took about 30 min.
That's as far as I got today, so far so good. All that's left is to mount the compressor, hook up the power, and connect the coolant lines then wait for the reefer to get cold. I held off on compressor install because I've got a bit of a conflict with the cockpit drain line and the new location of the coolant lines on the new compressor. I think a bit of a twist in the drain line exit fitting should fix the problem.
I finished the reefer replacement today. Installation of the compressor unit was a breeze, it has a smaller footprint than the original so it fit in easily I even used the original bolts. Connecting the coolant lines came next, I gently bent them into alignment and connected them up, the hardest part was finding the right size wrenches to tighten the fittings, the sizes called for in the manual are incorrect. I used the existing wires for power then just plugged in the thermostat, all done. I flipped the power switch it came to life and immediately started it get cold. I have ice again!
The whole thing cost about $1300 and if the new one performs half as well as the old one I'll be thrilled.
Congratulations. :thumb: Well done and thanks for the updates. :clap :clap
Good job!
I've been following this and other refer threads because I'm thinking that for my 20th anniversary of owning this boat I am going to install refer.
I have been looking at different units and am having a difficult time figuring out how to fit a freezer box into the icebox without making it a dysfunctional space. It seems that a plate would fit much better but then I wouldn't have the ability to make cubes.
Comments how you have made this work please......
Thanks Stu, and thanks for taking the time to walk me through the diagnosis of the old unit, at least I found out it was time for replacement.
Jeff,
You have a 1988 so when you say you're going to install a refer are you talking about replacing the original Adler/Barbour unit? As far as I know the Cat 34s all came stock with the Adler/Barbour Cold Machine, however I'll defer to our resident expert Stu on this topic. I'm not sure why you're having trouble figuring out where to mount the evaporator(freezer box), it looks to me like Catalina designed the refer space with the Adler/Barbour unit in mind.
My 1988 never had a refer unit installed. A virgin!
I have a couple of racks in the ice box and when I measure up the space taken up by the bin type freezer box (10.5"X11"X6.5"), the space remaining looks like access to the lower half of the icebox when be very difficult.
I was just wondering how you and others placed your freezer box in your icebox.
Factory placement is vertical, at top of box, in the aft inboard corner. Sorry don't have a pic handy. If someone doesn't beat me to it, I will take one this weekend.
Interesting
I have two nice wire racks that span the aft of the icebox, runner athwartship. They rest in notches that look like they were designed specifically for the racks.
Wow, I can't believe someone(original owner)would spend 60 to 70 thousand bucks for a beautiful new Cat 34 and not pony up a paltry thousand dollars for a fridge.
Jeff, your box sounds just like mine(sans refer), I have a tiered compartment with a single piece bottom shelf, and a two piece top shelf so you can access the bottom shelf, also mine are Plexiglas. The evaporator(freezer box)fits nicely on the rear wall of the box just above the top shelf.
If you're going ahead with refrigeration I would definitely recommend the A/B unit, it looks to me like the boat was designed with the A/B unit in mind. You should look in the aft lazeret to see if you have the compressor mounting platform in place, it's on the portside, forward, if not you can make one. It's just a couple pieces of plywood cut and fit to make a level platform, and some glass and resin of course. Also, you'll need to drill two 1 1/2" holes to run the coolant lines, one in the icebox wall and one in the aft cabin bulkhead low behind the stove. With that you should be able to install the A/B unit. Oh, you'll also have to run power wires from your main panel. I'm curious, the top right switch on my panel is marked "refrigerator" what does yours say?
Stu,
FYI, the beer is noticeably colder than in the old unit!
Has anyone installed a holding plate type vs the evaporator type? It would seem for boats that are tied to shore power and used primarily day sailing, it would be the preferred type, most efficient, least power drain, etc.?
ken
Ken,
By holding plate I assume you mean what Adler/Barbour calls their power plate. I actually looked at this and other options before I ordered my replacement unit. I passed on the power plate for a couple of reasons; it's quite a bit more expensive than the VD-150, also the coolant lines are only 12.5' long which means you'll need the extension lines, more $$$. I finally decided that there was an extremely slim, almost remote possibility that Catalina might know more about this than I do, so I stuck with what they originally installed.
I'm not sure what advantage a day sailor would gain from a power plate. If you don't drop your shore power(or rarely do)what difference does it make how efficient the unit is?
You know I'm learning way more about this refrigeration stuff than I wanted to, I just wanted a cold beer when I reached into the fridge.
Quote from: scgunner on October 11, 2017, 08:29:24 AM
Ken,
By holding plate I assume you mean what Adler/Barbour calls their power plate. I actually looked at this and other options before I ordered my replacement unit. I passed on the power plate for a couple of reasons; it's quite a bit more expensive than the VD-150, also the coolant lines are only 12.5' long which means you'll need the extension lines, more $$$. I finally decided that there was an extremely slim, almost remote possibility that Catalina might know more about this than I do, so I stuck with what they originally installed.
I'm not sure what advantage a day sailor would gain from a power plate. If you don't drop your shore power(or rarely do)what difference does it make how efficient the unit is?
You know I'm learning way more about this refrigeration stuff than I wanted to, I just wanted a cold beer when I reached into the fridge.
The holding plate stores up the energy while plugged in and doesn't need to run while sailing. Virtually no battery drain necessary when sailing. The plate is like a huge blue ice block that removes heat from the box constantly, versus an evaporator that removes heat ONLY when the compressor is running. I once worked on a milk route (back in the late 60s). There are two types of trucks, the evaporator (you see reefer truck that have a compressor above the cab that runs all the time) but mine had a HUGE cold plate. Plugged in overnight, and the cold box stayed at temp the entire day of the route.
If you are cruising on a hook, on a mooring, etc, then the cold plate doesn't fit the needs.
ken
Not sure what Ken means by "cruising on the hook", but holding plate refrigeration systems are quite popular with long distance crusiong sailors, especially in dedicated freezer boxes.
Versus at a marina every night with shore power?
I don't see a benefit to the holding played in less you have shore power and sondon't need to use your batteries.
Ken- maybe not on practical on a C34, but there are plently of larger cruising sailboats with generators running holding plate freezers, water-makers, A/C, etc. My understanding is the holding plate systems keep the box colder longer than evaporators.
Ya. Not talking mega yachts.
The HP will definitely keep it colder longer than an evaporator plate. I suppose the comparison would need to know how much energy it takes to freeze the HP (say it lasts a day of sailing) versus "continuously" running the EP for the same period of sailing. My suspicion from what I've read, although not confirmed and it was quite a while ago, is that you need a good overnight of compressor running in order to freeze the plate. It just seems like a more useful system for my purpose, using shore power energy versus battery energy. My guess is it would not be efficient unless you were on shore power each evening, because besides the compressor running to keep the box cool overnight, you have to store up enough energy for the next day's use.
K
These local San Diego guys make a good holding plate product—which cruiser reportedly run off of solar arrays
http://www.cruiserowaterandpower.com/CoolBlue_Parts_Pricing.html
Wow, talk about learning something new(that's actually old)everyday. I've been on the water for 32 years and this is the first time I've ever heard of a holding plate, hence my confusion with the power plate and the holding plate.
I did some reading on the subject and found the concept very interesting, this after I'd just installed my new A/B unit. Fortunately I think I made the right choice for me going with an original replacement unit. While I like the idea of reduced power usage it also has a downside, icebox insulation is critical you need 4" minimum, properly sealed openings very important, and it's recommended you keep fridge openings to a minimum(once a day if possible). A stock Cat 34 reefer isn't very well insulated, no where near 4", so if you're going with the holding plate option you're talking about some big time modification.
Hence maybe just one of the differences between our "coastal cruisers" and a purpose-built, "bluewater cruiser" (with its acompanying costs)?
Years ago we chartered in the BVIs and the 45' Jenneau had a plate (Frigoboat I believe) and it worked well. We had to run the engine 1 hour a day and it kept the ice boc cold for the full week. Never plugged in once.
Back to my question about the placement of the feezer box in the icebox......I must have a different set up. My box is about 24"X 18" and about 24"deep. The two wire trays span the aft portion of the ice box, one near the bottom before it really tapers in and the other half way to the top. I can't see how to fit it in with the trays there and still be able to work around them. I will go to the boat this weekend with a similar sized box and play around a bit.
Jeff,
Sounds like Stray Cat, like my boat Top Gun #0273 is a Mk I, as far as I know Catalina only offer one layout for that model so our cold boxes would have to be the same. To amend my earlier description of the box, the top shelf is two piece for lower shelf access, but the back top piece is cut out to make room for the evaporator, which makes that back piece roughly "L" shaped.
I'll be down on Top Gun today and I'll take some measurements and post them this afternoon.
Jeff,
Here are some pictures of my refrigerator, evaporator unit(freezer box), and shelves.
Same, but my (OEM?) shelves are coated wire.
Mine are just like scg's, plexiglass, same location for the evaporator. My compressor's in the lazarette.
Sounds like the early 34's came with Plexiglas shelves then sometime down the line they changed to wire shelves, not really sure why I don't see an advantage or disadvantage to either one, I suppose it's just one of those little changes that take place as the boat evolves.
The head scratcher for me is a dealer delivering a brand new boat with no refrigerator, I just thought they were installed at the factory.
My evaporator is located on the forward vertical wall, opposite of the photos. The trays I have are coated wire in two different lengths. They fit into the recesses molded into the inboard and outboard walls.
Jon,
Is your compressor unit located forward of the refrigerator?
My unit is mounted on the forward wall with a large piece of plexi for the bottom shelf and a shorter piece for the top shelf.
This is a new unit installed by the PO but I do not see any holes on the aft wall where a previous install might have been.
Dave
Quote from: scgunner on October 13, 2017, 08:05:31 AM
Sounds like the early 34's came with Plexiglas shelves then sometime down the line they changed to wire shelves, not really sure why I don't see an advantage or disadvantage to either one, I suppose it's just one of those little changes that take place as the boat evolves.
The head scratcher for me is a dealer delivering a brand new boat with no refrigerator, I just thought they were installed at the factory.
That's the S vs SX vs SXT model.
Probably a carryover from the C-30, where initially only an ice box was installed, then refrigeration became an option, then standard equipment on the MK-II, MK-III. On the C-30 features like that, instruments, if not a custom ordered boat, they were just dealer installed to customer's specs. My 84 shelves are plexiglass just like below.
Remember when AC was an option on car?? I remember my dad buying a Plymouth off the lot, which did not have AC, and it was a dealer install.
If someone has the spec/order/option sheet from an MK-I or MK-II it may show that as an option. Those brochures just reference 'ice box' generically.
K
Do I remember when AC was an option on a car? I remember when radios and heaters were options on cars.
That was the standard of the day, you started with a basic boat with a lot of options available, as I recall the basic C30 for example came with a tiller handle, the wheel being optional. The C34 on the other hand really ushered in a new era where Catalina began to move up scale to a more well appointed boat, example the wheel steering being standard. That's why I was surprised by a C34 being delivered without refrigeration.
Same question for you Dave, where is you compressor unit located?
Yes my compressor is located forward of the refrigerator, and forward of the starboard water tank with a vent open to the salon area. I've attached 2 photos to help.
Quote from: KWKloeber on October 13, 2017, 08:38:13 AM>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If someone has the spec/order/option sheet from an MK-I or MK-II it may show that as an option. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
http://c34.org/wikiwp/?rdp_we_resource=http%3A%2F%2Fc34.org%2Fwiki%2Findex.php%3Ftitle%3DFile%3A1985pricelist.jpg
Under interiors, Item 78 01, left side
from a search on "compressor+location"
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5025.0.html
and
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7711.0.html
Thanks Stu!! Mea culpa, I looked under the brochures, didn't think about "evolution". I'll put a link to those under the brochures
Ken
Jon,
I do like the location of your compressor, inside the boat, in a dry compartment. If I hadn't just finished installing my compressor in the original location I might have considered relocating it, but it's in now and it's not moving.
Quote from: scgunner on October 13, 2017, 09:25:37 AM
Do I remember when AC was an option on a car? I remember when radios and heaters were options on cars.
That was the standard of the day, you started with a basic boat with a lot of options available, as I recall the basic C30 for example came with a tiller handle, the wheel being optional. The C34 on the other hand really ushered in a new era where Catalina began to move up scale to a more well appointed boat, example the wheel steering being standard. That's why I was surprised by a C34 being delivered without refrigeration.
Same question for you Dave, where is you compressor unit located?
PO placed the new one in the hanging locker. Not the greatest use of space but well ventilated.
Dave,
Is that the locker across from the galley or the one in the V-berth? It seems there's no correct location(which I had originally assumed)for this unit, it's more whatever creativity will allow.
Quote from: scgunner on October 15, 2017, 08:27:23 AM
Dave,
Is that the locker across from the galley or the one in the V-berth? It seems there's no correct location(which I had originally assumed)for this unit, it's more whatever creativity will allow.
Sorry for the confusion, between head and nav station
Jeff,
Pictures of the evaporator with one of my two ice cube trays. Also included is the nifty ice cube tray "holder" that sits in the bottom of the evaporator and keeps the tray(s) from falling over.
Kevin,
Please note the handy hatch holder spring thingy that holds the fridge door open, hinges added on outboard side of the fridge door (one of the first mods I made based on 1987-era Mainsheet article(s)). I have one on my nav station desktop, too.
Interesting, all of the variations.
Jon W...I am planning on putting my compressor in the same location as you have. I am interested in your knowledge/experience installing the vents. How did you cut through the glass, would you do it the same way again, how thick was it there???
Jeff,
I assume now that you've the pictures you've seen we all have the same box, and how you can mount the evaporator. That being said I think if I were doing a new install I'd go with Jon's option too. The advantages are; it's in a cool, dry space and you don't have to worry about the great coolant line length controversy.
Yes I agree on the location. I've been thinking about it for the last year or so and that was the top choice with the locker by the nav. table a second.
I'm thinking the Nova kool unit with the same bucket style freezer box. Would like to keep my wire racks if they work, if not I'll just get same plexi ones made.
Just wondering about cutting through the bulkhead. Grinder, jigsaw, holesaw?
Pic of my wire racks and my guest's taste in beverages :shock: 8)
Jeff,
An 1 1/2" hole saw should do the trick, you'll need it that big to get the fittings through. I'm sure you can modify your wire racks to fit.
Hi Jeff. The hole for the vent shown in the photo I posted above was done before I got the boat. I like the location and would install in the same place if I were to do it again. Pros are easy to check, service, dry, and cool location. Cons are you lose some storage space.
I added the two vents in the battery compartment. I used a Milwaukee brand "dozer" hole saw for them. A hole saw would work on this bulkhead too. Just make sure to hold the drill tight. If the hole saw catches it will rip the drill out of your hand. The battery compartment has a double wall but am pretty sure the bulkhead with the compressor vent is single wall. I will be working on the boat tomorrow so will check the hole diameter and the bulkhead thickness and add to this post.
I ran into a few changes in the project I'm working on, so I wasn't able to confirm the bulkhead thickness and that it's a single wall but will tomorrow. My apologies for the delay.
The bulkhead is single wall about 1/8" thick fiberglass. The hole for the vent is ~ 3 1/4" diameter. I've attached 2 photos for reference.
Thanks Jon!
Do you think that 3-1/4" is big enough for optimal air movement?
It provides clearance for almost the entire set of cooling tubes. I think it's the right size. My PO did good. Another pro to having it easy to access is you can wipe off the stuff that gets packed onto the cooling fins.
Quote from: Jeff Tancock on October 18, 2017, 04:33:00 PM
Thanks Jon!
Do you think that 3-1/4" is big enough for optimal air movement?
Jeff, the fan behind the coil is 4 inch square. I suggest you just get a 4 inch square vent.
The black vent cover is 4" square and attached to the bulkhead with 4 #6 pan head SST screws. The hole behind the cover shown in the photo is ~ 3 1/4" diameter.