has anyone had to replace the port side wall in the engine compartment? The yard finally pulled my engine/shaft/etc. turns out, after i managed to peel up the rest of the stupid film/glue from the old insulation, the wall is starting to rot away. i was able to easily chip away two or three layers of the exiting plywood
picture show before cleaning and after...
Since it's not cosmetic I'd just make sure it's thoroughly dry then fill and seal with West Systems and filler and then sand it smooth, you can even paint it if you want it to look pretty. From the pictures it looks like you've got bigger fish to fry!
A similar repair to a C30 bulkhead was done by laying in some fglass fabric tying the good and new together (was non-visiable and non-critical.) If the bottom portion is very flimsy, drywall screw it down to a board to keep it flat and intact while rebuilding, and put a patch over the original/repaired interface to reinforce it. You could go overboard with bi-directional or carbon fiber, but why?
md, in the 20+ years of my activity with our C34 I do not recall anyone ever raising this issue. Not enough to make you wanna be the first, though, huh? :cry4`
First thing that occurred to me: What does the aft cabin side of the bulkhead look like? If the veneer is OK, then Kevin's right, it's just cosmetic on the engine side, and Ken's ideas will work.
That's not a structural bulkhead, so you could just slice the rotten bottom portion off and rebuild it that way with nice veneer to match in the aft cabin. I can't go any further than that 'cuz it is wood we're talking about here and I failed every single wood shop I was ever allowed into!!! :shock:
Then, of course, there's the door to the dipstick, looks like the rot could be below it.
Good luck.
Quote from: Stu Jackson on May 22, 2019, 11:19:39 AM
md, in the 20+ years of my activity with our C34 I do not recall anyone ever raising this issue. Not enough to make you wanna be the first, though, huh? :cry4`
i don't mind being the first, but i generally like to get a better understanding before i dive in.
i'd thought about just mixing up some thickened epoxy and just spackling it on there, but the wood is pretty punky and soft. it goes deeper then just the veneer layer. i'll see this weekend, if it's dried out at all. but since i hope to never ever have to pull the engine again, i'd rather fix it right then cheap out and have to redo it with the engine in the way. which means replacing either the whole panel or just the lower section.
all the wood above the alternator door is still pretty solid. i thought about just cutting from the top of the alternator door down and replacing the wood, but then there will be an ugly seam.
then i thought about just pulling the whole panel. i'm not readily sure how it comes out and the other side is the head with the white top layer, which i'm not sure how to replace.
the only saving grace is the head door is hinged on the other side, so refitting the door (which i've failed miserably at in home projects) shouldn't be an issue
Maybe this will help, maybe not?
CTY's wood shop used, on C30 head panels/bulkhead, ply w/ teak one side / white laminate opposite from H&L Woodwork - (1/2"). The same laminated ply H&P used on its cockpit tables. I could look up the p/n but it's irrelevant since H&L is gone for maybe 10 yrs?
The former lead carpenter @ H&L might be mfgrng the same plywood and can cut a panel to size or from a supplied template. He had saved some of the CTY patterns but might need the panel # that H&L stamped onto the back sides (typically the model and piece, like C34 135.)
Cesar Pacheco
CP Marine Woodwork
(310) 538-5528
(310) 538-5364 Fax
woodwork@cp-marine.com
cp-marine.com
Frankly I had a couple sales working and could never get info and a price from CP, and have stopped using him.
Or your nearest lumber yard mill shop (not a big box) "wood" :cry: be able to laminate a ply panel.
Or, it's very easy and have done it several times - just need to buy the ply, a scalp of white Formica or Wilsonite, a gal of contact cement, and get some kraft paper (grocery bags if anyone still uses them.) 10x easier than hanging a door :thumb:
Or check w/ CTY.
On the 30, head panels are screwed in from the teak side using doubled-up finish washers (possibly the screws were a titch long and w/o taking up some depth the point would poke thru??)
Have you determined the cause/reason why that bulkhead rotted?
Quote from: mdidomenico on May 23, 2019, 05:34:09 AM>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
all the wood above the alternator door is still pretty solid. i thought about just cutting from the top of the alternator door down and replacing the wood, but then there will be an ugly seam.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I understand. Perhaps you could consider making it a feature not a bug. or by making a nice wooden strip to cover the seam. It's in the head, and only seated people would see it...:D
Quote from: KWKloeber on May 23, 2019, 07:54:41 AM
Or your nearest lumber yard mill shop (not a big box) "wood" :cry: be able to laminate a ply panel.
Or, it's very easy and have done it several times - just need to buy the ply, a scalp of white Formica or Wilsonite, a gal of contact cement, and get some kraft paper (grocery bags if anyone still uses them.) 10x easier than hanging a door :thumb:
is the white layer, really just a laminate of white formica like you see at lowes in the counter top area? i've seen people use it on tv to make counter tops, seems simple enough. smear contact cement on both layers, let dry, smoosh together and trim. if that's all it is, i can probably handle that.
Quote from: Noah on May 23, 2019, 08:28:49 AM
Have you determined the cause/reason why that bulkhead rotted?
i have no definitive explanation. i did not know how badly the panel was rotted until i pulled the engine. the panel "looked" okay before i poked it, but once i poked the bear it started growling.
my suspicion however is that the engine exhaust was leaking/pooling in that area. when i pulled my exhust manifold and heat exchanger, the manifold basically crumbled in my hands and the gaskets on the heat exchanger were crusty. (you have to keep in mind, this is damage from the PO, i've only had the boat a year and am doing basically a total refit at this point, not that it started out that way)
it's either that or leaks from the hatch, but i don't have any signs of staining on the upper part of the panel, so that seems less likely.
Just a thought... We had a leak from the anti siphon valve between the heat exchanger and the exhaust nipple. I caught it early (replaced the valve) but if left dripping it would most likely have dribbled down that bulkhead.
Paul
Quote from: mdidomenico on May 24, 2019, 05:09:50 AM>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
is the white layer, really just a laminate of white formica like you see at lowes in the counter top area? i've seen people use it on tv to make counter tops, seems simple enough. smear contact cement on both layers, let dry, smoosh together and trim. if that's all it is, i can probably handle that.
Yes, it is.
Al Watson did his countertop in the galley, here, #9 describes Formica covering of the plywood: http://www.c34.org/projects/kindred-spirit/counter2.html
Jim Brener's 2015 tech note on redoing his head counter noted that he had a wood yard do the Formica work for him.
I'm sure YouTube has lots of how to do things about Formica.
Good luck.
Quote from: mdidomenico on May 22, 2019, 08:09:17 AM
The yard finally pulled my engine/shaft/etc.
Just curious why you pulled your engine? Are you repowering? Rebuilding?
Rob
Quote from: sailr4 on May 24, 2019, 07:44:04 AM
Quote from: mdidomenico on May 22, 2019, 08:09:17 AM
The yard finally pulled my engine/shaft/etc.
Just curious why you pulled your engine? Are you repowering? Rebuilding?
the motor mounts were original and needed to be replaced along with the shaft/coupling/cutlass etc. course along this process, i also found that my hx gaskets were leaking, the exhaust manifold was corroded beyond even being a piece of pipe anymore, and despite the PO telling me the electrical was fixed i found one set of trailer connectors in the wire bundle (though i didn't trace to see if they were in use).
it was actually easier and cheaper to have the yard crane the engine out then try to work/fix all this stuff around it. the yard also told me last weekend it looks like i might need a new oil pan as well. so woo hoo bye bye money... :(
on the bright side, by the time i'm done next spring, i'll basically have a brand new boat... :)
Are you talking about the exhaust manifold (hope not) being toast, or the exhaust riser? Big difference.
Do you have any "before" pictures?
Quote from: KWKloeber on May 24, 2019, 02:56:48 PM
Are you talking about the exhaust manifold (hope not) being toast, or the exhaust riser? Big difference.
Do you have any "before" pictures?
i'm talking about the solid pipe that connects the engine to the muffler. i suppose that's the riser and not the manifold.
The "used to be solid pipe"? 👍🏻
Our exhaust riser was pretty bad, not that bad, but definitely time to replace.
CD had some off the shelf, but the size (lengths) were just a tad off.
But the price difference between off the shelf and custom made the decision easy.
I moved the Muffler box about 1" to port and the new riser fit like a charm.
Paul
in case anyone's interested now (or in the future). out came the port head wall today... came out rather easy. i did have saw the door frame where it splines into the titled section at the top. that sucks, but at least it was only one straight cut, so i should be able to fix it
after some digging through the yellow pages, i managed to find some 1/2" okoume plywood (marine grade) fairly locally. however, i've been unable to find formica anywhere. apparently most stores stopped carrying it cause it's gone out of style and it's apparently fragile and easily broken by man hands.
i don't particularly want to special order two sheets from lowes/home depot, but i can if i must. however, wandering around i managed to stop these panels.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Glasliner-4-ft-x-8-ft-White-090-FRP-Wall-Board-MFTF12IXA480009600/100389836
it says FRP. i'm wondering if i can use these instead of formica and bond them to the okoume with regular west epoxy
i'm not huge fan of the "cracked ice" texture, but it's not terrible
looks like you're supposed to use FRP glue, from liquid nails or titebond. both will stick to plywood and claim moisture resistance, so epoxy might not be needed. just fyi...
Formica is just a brand name. Should be able to find replacement smooth laminates at any lumberyard, Lowes, HD or cabinet shop/supplier. Other popular bands are Wilsonart and Nevamar. Contact cement should work in this circumstances.
md
If the crackle finish doesn't suit you (I don't blame you, I wouldn't use it) there is smooth FRP available also. I think Lowes carries it, but not stock, order in but it's 2x-3x the $$ of the stock textured. Or check with a real lumber yard they usually have a wider selection and oftentimes "formica" (or other brand) also. Also, formica is still used on commercial cabinets (custom offices, desks) so do a Giggle search for a cabinet shop or "case goods" near you (have no idea where you are but they are not only located in large metro areas) - you might be able to buy a laminate sheet (cut to size.) Matte white would be the ticket. if FRP, my gut says use contact cement. it should work as well (it worked well for a for replacement J/120 headliner and durable but it had a very mild texture, nearly not noticed.) As I said below, if the substrate is thirsty, either seal the ply surface or double load the contract cement on the ply after the one dries (otherwise it may look grabby, but it's soaked in and the laminate won't get good adhesion.)
Also, Amazon and cabinetmaker warehouse sells laminate online, "free" delivery. You need only "vertical grade" laminate for your project.
Quote from: mdidomenico on June 15, 2019, 06:10:36 PM
out came the port head wall today...
Just a thought/suggestion, while you have that all opened up and easy access -- as long as your riser is shot anyway, why not install the water-cooled riser and be done with exhaust gas eating up the riser forevermore, and run a WAY COOLER engine compartment/no riser insulation needed?
i've not been able to locate smooth laminate near me, that isn't special order. so i can get it, but i don't really want to special order pieces though. i have a couple more calls to make, hopefully something will turn up.
i'm not sure what you mean by install the water cooled riser? my old one had a water inlet to cool the exhaust and i was planning to buy the duplicate from catalina direct.
MD
Just wondering, what's the objection to placing an order at a big box for the laminate you want? Or the online sites?
The OEM was actually "matte" finish white. A good lumber yard should be able to get in what you want. or a cabinet maker. Call Dave Ramsay, maybe they'll sell you a sheet of white.
On the wet riser, seawater surrounds the whole exhaust flow -- not injected at the end (at the muffler inlet) as the CTY risers do where there's no cooling on the riser itself (that's why yours burned up.) With it you use a side-inlet muffler.
Quote from: KWKloeber on August 02, 2019, 03:54:33 PM
Just wondering, what's the objection to placing an order at a big box for the laminate you want? Or the online sites?
On the wet riser, seawater surrounds the whole exhaust flow -- not injected at the end (at the muffler inlet) as the CTY risers do where there's no cooling on the riser itself (that's why yours burned up.) With it you use a side-inlet muffler.
it's not a problem, i just prefer to get stuff in stock as opposed to special order. it's usually the result of me screwing up the first one i bought and needing to get a second. just a personal preference
okay, i understand what you're referring to, but i've not seen that posted as a DIY project anywhere. since i have to undertake this project this month as i hope to get my engine back in in the couple weeks, i'd be interested in more detail. not sure i'll go that route, but i certainly want to have all the info, esp since the riser/shielding/hoses is going to run me $500 or so from CD
Quote from: mdidomenico on August 03, 2019, 04:05:52 AM
okay, i understand what you're referring to, but i've not seen that posted as a DIY project anywhere.
[Edit]
Note Bill's is an XPB, so you'd need to measure/confirm it will fit w/ your XP, but I'd suspect it would.
MD
I linked it to you last year.
https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,10020.msg76753.html#msg76753-k