This season will mark my families 6th year with our cat34.
We are planning on taking a one year cruise on the boat in two years. This cruise will have myself, wife and our two boys that will be 8 &10 leaving New England and heading for Florida, hopefully the Bahamas and who knows from there.
One of the upgrades we will need is refrigeration. I know, I will need to upgrade the electrical system and I am planning on adding solar.
I have been reading on this site and it seems that the way to go is with a somewhat high output alternator and four 6 volt house battery bank and a dedicated 12 volt starting battery.
When I start reading on this site, most of the conversations get deep with details pretty fast and I end up jumping from one link to the next. I did go the Wiki under batteries and read the write up on a golf battery set up.
Currently I just have a two 12V battery bank. My mechanic that just did a valve and injector job replaced my alternator and external regulator with what I think is a pretty standard auto alternator with an internal regulator. His reasoning on going internal was to simplify the wiring. I kind of unknowingly said okay.
So I guess my question is this, with running a refrigeration system (which I have not picked out yet) and solar (which I have not designed yet), is the aforementioned battery set up the way to go, hands down? I know there will be other electrical upgrades along the way but I am just looking for this answer as a starting point.
Quote from: Set2sea on February 28, 2019, 11:08:39 AM
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So I guess my question is this, with running a refrigeration system (which I have not picked out yet) and solar (which I have not designed yet), is the aforementioned battery set up the way to go, hands down? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yes, hands down, best bang for the buck and space.
Real cruising:
1. read everything by waterdog
2. Read Wealsea's journal, link in the 101 Topics, they did Great Lakes thru the Erie Canal to the Bahamas and back.
Paul : You didn't mention your hull #. Stu made a good suggestion and I might add to look at Hank Recla's Mainsheet tech note article on the basic system of 4 golf cart batteries, hi output alternator and external regulator. He details everything even down to the size & # of the connectors you'll need.
Don't know what your mechanic took off, but you can always carry them along as spares. Once you get out of the U.S.A things (especially parts) get scarce, hard to get and expensive!!
You've got a couple of years so best advice is to spend a couple of months reading and come up with a master plan before you start to change things!!
Good Luck, a few thoughts :thumb:
If you're going to start reading, several of us added write ups of our electrical upgrade projects to the Tech WIKI "electrical" section under "panel, wiring". Most have schematics. In my case I included a complete parts list, a schematic, a cable/wire list (with wire/cable ID's, gauge, connectors, length, and voltage drop for each wire/cable), plus lots of photos, and a link to a very detailed forum thread that I started when I was in your shoes. Certainly not the only way to upgrade electrically, but gives a good overview on a way in one place.
I also have write ups on adding a second bilge pump, increasing propane, increased storage if you get bored. Easiest to find under my name in the Boat/Author section. Good luck.
Wow Paul, this trip sounds great!! We cruise the Chesapeake and will be on battery power for 3 or 4 days at times. Now that's probably not as long as you might find on your adventure, but what I found that helps is to first reduce the amount of power you need. What I mean is change all your lights to LEDs, which use a fraction of the power. Also, change out your anchor light to LED. beefing up the insulation for your fridge is also a must do.
Thanks guys. I will read up in those areas!
Quote from: Set2sea on March 01, 2019, 10:39:38 AM
Thanks guys. I will read up in those areas!
Hello Roc,
We will definitely be going thru the Chesapeake. I looks like there are some great spots. I am planning on having some time to explore.
I just have a couple of more lights to go LED, all of my mast lights are already LED.
I redid my galley counter last spring and insulated the ice box as much as we could. You are not talking going inside with insulation and making box smaller are you? I'm doubting people have done that?
No not talking about making a smaller box. I took some drawers out to access the area around the fridge compartment. I used insulated foam panels with low expansion foam to hold them in place. Did the best I could with being able to access the inside areas. People have drilled holes and shot foam inside the areas that aren't accessible, but I didn't do that.
I bumped into Dawn Treader (a MK1) recently in Mexico. Peter has using lithium which would be the ultimate battery set up for distance cruising, but I think it is still in the enthusiast category. Knowledgeable user required.
Golf carts are your best choice.
For the alternator, if you are going big, a few things. You need temp compensation, a belt system upgrade, and external regulation. You will fry alternators and wear out water pump bearings if your system is not well designed. Consider one of the moderately sized Leece Neville units with internal regulation. Can't beat it for simplicity. Assume you will need to replace an alternator offshore in the middle of the night. How complex do you want the job to be?
Solar. You cannot have enough. When you think you have enough. Find a way to put on more. I have an 1100 Watt system and I am thinking of putting another 600W on my arch as we cruise full time on our cat.
Quote from: Stu Jackson on February 28, 2019, 12:43:05 PM
Quote from: Set2sea on February 28, 2019, 11:08:39 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
2. Read Wealsea's journal, link in the 101 Topics, they did Great Lakes thru the Erie Canal to the Bahamas and back.
Tried to take a look but got this:
Sorry, we couldn't find that page.
The page you are looking for may have been moved, updated or deleted.
Quote from: DaveBMusik on March 01, 2019, 03:53:10 PM
Tried to take a look but got this:
Sorry, we couldn't find that page.
The page you are looking for may have been moved, updated or deleted.
Sorry about that. It was hosted on Chicago's All Catalina Fleet 21 website. They may have deemed it legacy. :D
I'll try to contact the owner and see if it's still up somewhere.
Thanks for letting us know.
Paul,
You should figure out the amount of energy you need in a 24 hr period and proceed from that point to the upgrades of your electrical system. Upgrading to LED lights is a great improvement.
Inverters and Tv etc use a lot of energy.
Paul
Investigate Firefly batteries as well. Expensive but many of the benefits of Lithium. They are hard to get but becoming more available.
https://www.bruceschwab.com/advanced-energy-storage-systems/firefly-energys-oasis-group-31/
Quote from: waterdog on March 01, 2019, 03:22:32 PM
For the alternator, if you are going big, a few things. You need temp compensation, a belt system upgrade, and external regulation. You will fry alternators and wear out water pump bearings if your system is not well designed. Consider one of the moderately sized Leece Neville units with internal regulation. Can't beat it for simplicity. Assume you will need to replace an alternator offshore in the middle of the night. How complex do you want the job to be?
Solar. You cannot have enough. When you think you have enough. Find a way to put on more. I have an 1100 Watt system and I am thinking of putting another 600W on my arch as we cruise full time on our cat.
Waterdog
You have me confused with the internal/external regulator - You said go with external but then you said get "moderately sized Leece Neville units with internal regulation". (?)
I am going to try to read up on the pros and cons of internal/external regulation?
Paul,
Steve aka waterdog, sold his boat a few years ago and I do not think he's around here anymore, he's sailing a 40 ft catamaran, most likely in MX by now.
His 1500&3600 Mile Report & 5000 Mile link is here: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5270.0.html
There is also a link to Cruising Spares in the 101 topics.
The Electrical 101 Topic has a post by Maine Sail about internal vs. external regulation.
I think his point was, IIRC, that swapping an internally regulated alternator when out at sea may be easier than an externally regulated one. However, if your externally regulated alternator has a Ford plug for the stator and tach, it's easier, I think.
Quote from: Stu Jackson on March 05, 2019, 10:24:40 AM
Paul,
Steve aka waterdog, sold his boat a few years ago and I do not think he's around here anymore, he's sailing a 40 ft catamaran, most likely in MX by now.
Scroll up. Steve just posted here 1 March. :thumb:
Tacking onto Stu's observation about simplicity - how I read Steve's comments is:
(not necessarily recommending it but) IF you go big (say 100a) you need to consider all that junk he lists. SO INSTEAD consider going moderate Leece (say 70-ish, the trade off being it would be internally reg.) ie, keep it KISS.
THAT SAID, the new drop in Universal replacements that Rod will soon (if not already) have available look like a REALLY GOOD compromise.
Billet pulley
Drop in foot
72a
On the back reg w/ 2-stage, remote sense able
What else am I missing?
(beside that if it's Rod's, you know it's a 2x quality piece of machinery for the money.) :thumb:
It's not a $70 reman, but it's a nice compromise between that and a full blown $$$$$ charging system re-do (if your style doesn't require that.)
Quote from: KWKloeber on March 06, 2019, 10:20:31 AM
Tacking onto Stu's observation about simplicity - how I read Steve's comments is:
(not necessarily recommending it but) IF you go big (say 100a) you need to consider all that junk he lists. SO INSTEAD consider going moderate Leece (say 70-ish, the trade off being it would be internally reg.) ie, keep it KISS.
THAT SAID, the new drop in Universal replacements that Rod will soon (if not already) have available look like a REALLY GOOD compromise.
Billet pulley
Drop in foot
72a
On the back reg w/ 2-stage, remote sense able
What else am I missing?
(beside that if it's Rod's, you know it's a 2x quality piece of machinery for the money.) :thumb:
It's not a $70 reman, but it's a nice compromise between that and a full blown $$$$$ charging system re-do (if your style doesn't require that.)
Just building the first ones now. We can also build them in a 90A or 105A version too. Still, for cruising, an external regulator correctly wired is the way to go, unless you have lots of solar...
Quote from: Ted Pounds on March 06, 2019, 09:58:46 AM
Quote from: Stu Jackson on March 05, 2019, 10:24:40 AM
Paul,
Steve aka waterdog, sold his boat a few years ago and I do not think he's around here anymore, he's sailing a 40 ft catamaran, most likely in MX by now.
Scroll up. Steve just posted here 1 March. :thumb:
Ted,
I am AN IDIOT!!! :cry4`
Thanks for noting.
Hey, Steve, hi to Tracy! Great to see you still hangin' with us po' folk! :D
Quote from: mainesail on March 06, 2019, 12:34:16 PM
Just building the first ones now. We can also build them in a 90A or 105A version too. Still, for cruising, an external regulator correctly wired is the way to go, unless you have lots of solar...
RC, clear up my confusion -- are you saying that the 90a/105a w/ the back-on adj regulator is a drop-in for a Universal M25 (etc.)?
I thought you don't want to push that high w/o getting into WP/crank pulley/belt changes?
-ken
Quote from: mainesail on March 06, 2019, 12:34:16 PM
Ultimately, if pushing beyond 90A or so, especially with high acceptance batteries or even large flooded banks, the optimal solution is a serpentine kit. Unfortunately these serpentine pulleys do not fit the LN frames and you'd need to be into a Delco style frame. Lots of options...
Good points here. One thing MS and I have discussed over the years is external regulators and how Small Engine Mode can help, too. If you look at Elec 101 you'll see those discussions.
Thanks RC, perfect explanation.
Quote from: mainesail on March 07, 2019, 03:43:03 AM
"Catalina Special"..
I hope you'll market it beyond that - there's lots others out there with M-25s!
-k
As an aside for anyone dealing with belt issues, I put on a Balmar serpentine kit on my Yanmar 3YM30 and works beautifully.
Quote from: mainesail on March 07, 2019, 03:43:03 AM
Lots of options...
RC,
Do I interpret it correctly that your slap-on adjV LN regulator CANNOT be used on the 2049K (the alternator that I believe was most typical one used on the M-25s? I would need the ER adapter and an $$$$ER ?
-ken
Quote from: mainesail on March 07, 2019, 03:43:03 AM
Ultimately, if pushing beyond 90A or so, especially with high acceptance batteries or even large flooded banks, the optimal solution is a serpentine kit. Unfortunately these serpentine pulleys do not fit the LN frames and you'd need to be into a Delco style frame. Lots of options...
Good points here. One thing MS and I have discussed over the years is external regulators and how Small Engine Mode can help, too. If you look at Elec 101 you'll see those discussions.
Just so you know, what I have is a 100A Blue Circle alternator , Balmar MC-612 external regulator, AO to house bank, Yandina combiner, Freedom 15 I/C. I started out with a stock alternator with an AutoMac.
I still run a 3/8" Gates belt, nothing special other than Gates. I have carefully adjusted my bracket based on MS's excellent advice (also posted in both Critical Upgrades and the 101 Topics).
Operationally, the Small Engine Mode use is discussed in the Elec 101s.