I am looking to a C34... It is a fixer upper boat... It needs whole a lot bottom job since docked for years without any bottom service or anything. Yesterday we pulled her out and bottom looked like a scene from National Geographic documentary.
After much of a scraping and pressure wash the bottom structurally looks ok so far.(Not completely cleaned yet)
But then we saw the dreaded signs of Catalina smile. Boatyard wants $2000 to fix it. Is it normal or excessive and another $2000 for the bottom prep and paint because so much cleaning and sanding need to be done as they claim.
Does it sound right to you guys?
If anybody had similar experience, especially in California (SF Bay area) please let me know.
Appreciated,
I had new bottom paint put on May of 2015 at a San Diego, Ca. boat yard. Total cost was about $1840 as follows -
Haul, hydrowash, prep/labor and new zincs was $1,360, plus $442 plus tax for 3 gallons of Interlux Ultra (color red).
Can't speak to the smile cost yet. I do have the start of one and will be hauling the boat out Nov 29 to fix that, check keel bolt torque, upgrade transducers, and a few other things.
A big "It depends." Need more info as to what the true state of the bottom is and the scope their intended repair(s).
1. Bottom, on the exterme side: grind, lots of large blisters repaired and new barrier coat, and then bottom paint
2. Normal: on every 2-years in CA some perhaps small bister repair and two coats of paint.
3. Smile simple: add epoxy fairing putty and paint
4. Smile medium: tighten keel bolts, add epoxy fairing putty and paint
5. Smile big: drop keel, rebed, reattach, fair and paint.
All different costs.
In SoCal my simple bottom job; haul, clean, spot grind and fill a half dozen small biilters and apply two coats of good bottom paint costs approx. $1,250.
Capt. Jim : You didn't enumerate what the "$2000 bottom job" entailed???
If it includes sanding, fix all blisters, apply 2 coats of epoxy barrier coat, and then bottom paint - that's a pretty good deal!!
The price is in the details of the job!!!!!!
A thought
Quote from: Ron Hill on November 19, 2016, 01:03:22 PM
Capt. Jim : You didn't enumerate what the "$2000 bottom job" entailed???
If it includes sanding, fix all blisters, apply 2 coats of epoxy barrier coat, and then bottom paint - that's a pretty good deal!!
The price is in the details of the job!!!!!!
A thought
Haha, you're right my mistake...
Just sanding/prepping and bottom paint + the Catalina smile fix + Cleaning the prop/shaft and zinc installations all together was quoted at $4500 ( No blister fixes included )
Still not enough info on what you/they mean regarding "smile fix"?
Jim,
Have you looked at the 101 Topics thread? There's a Catalina Smile link there.
Quote from: Noah on November 19, 2016, 02:28:14 PM
Still not enough info on what you/they mean regarding "smile fix"?
Scrape/grind the crack area fill with epoxy and paint with adjusting the keel bolt torques to the specs I guess...
Boatyard said they are familiar with the Catalina smile and it fix.
It comes down to trust in your boatyard (and the going rates in the SF Bay area). I/we don't know how "bad" you smile issue is without pics and being there. If you/they think a keel bolt torque and cosmetic fill/fairing is "all" it needs, $2,000 sounds high to me. But maybe the NorCal sailors have a better feel for local costs and can comment/review/vouch for the reputation of the yard you are using. Caveat: I have never torqued the keel bolts on my boat but I have read (on this forum) that some are tough to reach and require modified tools/sockets. Also, my advice is always be there and watch when the yard works on your boat, to both QA their work and to learn from the experience, good or bad.
Quote
Scrape/grind the crack area fill with epoxy and paint with adjusting the keel bolt torques to the specs I guess...
Boatyard said they are familiar with the Catalina smile and it fix.
Maybe it's just me, but unless i already have total confidence in them from past experience, anyone who gives me a quote for repairs, better give it in writing and have enough detail to (1) give me confidence I'm not getting hosed, (2) be able to verify that what they said they were going to do, "they did," and (3) convince me that they know what they're doing and it's the appropriate way to accomplish it (my budget vs. how "good" I want it fixed,) and (4) that if s4!t happens and there's extra work, whether it should have been covered in the price. In that case, I'd expect to see enough detail -- say 10 - 20 lines items specifying materials and methods, and estimated hours. A really good and reputable party is proud to demonstrate that they do top-notch work for fair compensation, jack-legs, not so much.
-kk
When we hauled and had the smile fixed the yard set the boat down on the keel, tightened the keel bolts after peeling the glass off the joint, then reglassed the joint all for 1300, another 800 for 2 coats of bottom paint with a 3rd at the waterline.
That's more like it!!! :clap May be different in NorCal.
A VERY fair price. Hang onto that yard!
Ralph,
I presume you're saying they refaired the joint -- not actually anything to do w/ the crack.
Do you know if the yard just faired it to the keel (what CTY did originally), or did the CTY recommended fix with glass mat etc?
For others doing this - note that GB recommended I use biaxial cloth for that purpose for strength. I would have used carbon if it was in 'everyday' use at the time.
-ken
Quote from: Ralph Masters on November 21, 2016, 06:13:24 PM
When we hauled and had the smile fixed the yard set the boat down on the keel, tightened the keel bolts after peeling the glass off the joint, then reglassed the joint all for 1300, another 800 for 2 coats of bottom paint with a 3rd at the waterline.
Ken, what is Catalina's recommended fix for the smile?
jon
The first attached, I presume -- is generic for the C30/C34? I haven't done a C34 site search for it.
Also att'd the "generic" stub fix.
-k
Quote from: Jon W on November 21, 2016, 07:32:58 PM
Ken, what is Catalina's recommended fix for the smile?
Thanks. Will be good to have to discuss with the boatyard next week.
Ken,
They covered the joint with 3 strips of 3 inch glass cloth, one from the bottom up over the joint, one from the top down over the joint and the third over the middle of the whole thing. Not pretty, but strong, wtill holding with no opening of the crack. Bilge stays dry.
Ralph
ok, IIRC I made a point to grind out enough so I could 'bury' at least the 1st layer of biaxial then faired with biaxial above and below (kinda opposite what they did. That allowed me to make a very clean fairing between the stub and onto the lead. I didn't make a pattern beforehand to match to, but a guy who does lots of work on his boat looked at it and said it was 'perfect.'
The first shot shows the joint after setting the stub settled onto the lead slathered w/ 5200 (GB recommended it.) The next day I lowered it all the way (and torqued - maybe it was a day or two after that - CRS.) Yikes - w/ the 5200 I don't need any bolts anymore.
For some reason the length keel buss doesn't match the keel -- only short on one end though. So I had to reform the 'curve.' pic 2
pic 3 - the finished fairing (if you can zoom on.)
Quote from: Ralph Masters on November 22, 2016, 03:36:03 PM
Ken,
They covered the joint with 3 strips of 3 inch glass cloth, one from the bottom up over the joint, one from the top down over the joint and the third over the middle of the whole thing. Not pretty, but strong, wtill holding with no opening of the crack. Bilge stays dry.
Ralph
In my conversation with Catalina today on another matter, they mentioned that they have revised the smile fix using West G Flex.
Are they saying G-flex in the groove, and to still glass over the joint -- Or just G flex in the joint and fair/paint it?
-k
quote author=DaveBMusik link=topic=9219.msg67570#msg67570 date=1479862354]
In my conversation with Catalina today on another matter, they mentioned that they have revised the smile fix using West G Flex.
[/quote]
Ron was referring to this link:
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6842.0.html
Ideas for leaky keel bolts and crack at the front.
I did this in 2011 and the joint has not changed in appearance in any way despite improper blocking, bumping a sandbar, and 6 hours pounding 6 footers in 35kts. I guess it's not coming off.
Quote from: Indian Falls on November 23, 2016, 04:54:22 AM
Ron was referring to this link:
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6842.0.html
And it is the SAME ONE included in the 101 topics. I included it there because it was such a thorough, informative, helpful, well documented and well photographed post.
Rebedding a Keel Stub 101
The Catalina Smile with Pictureshttp://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6842.0.html (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6842.0.html)
Thanks again, Dan.