Needed to put a little tension on the alternator belt. Remembered some talk about a tensioner so thought I would build one. $2.95 at the hardware. Got a 4" turnbuckle & welded a short length of 1/4" round on each end.
Cut off the eyelets, bend 2 short lengths of round and weld them on the ends. Worked like a charm, saved some boat bucks & didn't have to check all the auto parts stores.
great idea, will also work for my motorboat. Love these ideas that come up on this forum. thanks
Mannnn I wish I had a welder. Or better yet that I hadn't moved so far from my buddy/master stainless fabricator
For those who don't partake, there's also a couple alternatives... a tension jack
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/35438209?item=35438209&fromRR=Y
and a reversed bar clamp
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5408.msg33516.html#msg33516
kk
Phil : Too bad you didn't ask as I've got one that's not being used - ever again!!
It can't be used on a M25XPB or M35BC engine (easily)
Ron, send it to Erie with the boat...it will be needed some day.
KK , Bar clamp, good solution. Never thought of it. I never thought about MSC. Have one down the road. At school we use MSC all the time, but $21 vs $3. I'll go to school & weld. More fun & less boat bucks.
Merry Christmas to all at our site. Take care of each other.
I like collecting tools. But I don't understand the need for this for our boats. Open the engine access door in the head, Pull on the alternator with your right hand, tighten the bolts with your left. Job done.
Ken : The whole idea behind the belt tensioning tool is that you can set it up and test the tension before you tighten the nuts! I've done like you say and that works, but it could lead to over or under tension.
Just easier to use the tool and more precise to also be able to look down and then maybe move the alternator aft or fwd a bit to get the best alignment (beside tension).
A thought
Quote from: Ron Hill on December 21, 2014, 02:26:31 PM
Ken : The whole idea behind the belt tensioning tool is that you can set it up and test the tension before you tighten the nuts! I've done like you say and that works, but it could lead to over or under tension.
Just easier to use the tool and more precise to also be able to look down and then maybe move the alternator aft or fwd a bit to get the best alignment (beside tension).
A thought
So Ron, you're saying in conjunction with whichever method to set the pulley distance, owners need a Krick-It?
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.msg57780.html#msg57780
KK
As noted in the "101 Topic" belt tensioner thread, the later engines don't need one, because their alternator bracket assembly is vastly different than the M25 series engines.
Ken : I'm not saying that you also need a "Krick-it".
The belt tool allows you to set the tension once installed - hands off. Then you can look down and probably move (pushing against the pulley) the alternator aft with one hand while you tighten the bolts with the other - for belt alignment.
As Stu points out the raw water pump is on the port side of the engine (in the way of the belt) on the M35BC and M25XPB engines. Also the alternator weight (hinged on the bottom) can easily be pushed with the heal of the hand to the correct tension position on those engines.
A thought
Quote from: Ron Hill on December 22, 2014, 02:08:35 PM
Ken : I'm not saying that you also need a "Krick-it".
The tool allows you to set the tension one installed - hands off. Then you can look down and probably move (pushing against the pulley) the alternator aft with one hand while you tighten the bolts with the other.
As Stu points out the raw water pump is on the port side of the engine (in the way of the belt) on the M35BC and M25XPB. Also the alternator weight (hinged on the bottom) can easily be pushed with the heal of the hand to the correct tension position.
A thought
So, I'm confused .... <<The whole idea behind the belt tensioning tool is that you can set it up and test the tension before you tighten the nuts!>>
How do you set the proper tension ---- with a jack, or with a tug, or using gravity, or a sky hook, without knowing what the tension actually is?? (ie, a krick-it or another gauge?)
Ken
Quote from: KWKloeber on December 22, 2014, 02:12:41 PM
How do you set the proper tension ---- with a jack, or with a tug, or using gravity, or a sky hook, without knowing what the tension actually is?? (ie, a krick-it or another gauge?)
Yup, "
the olde sky hook" method has always worked for us. :D :D :D
1/2 inch deflection on the long length of the belt, and able to turn it 90 degrees by hand.
Quote from: Stu Jackson on December 22, 2014, 02:37:15 PM
Quote from: KWKloeber on December 22, 2014, 02:12:41 PM
How do you set the proper tension ---- with a jack, or with a tug, or using gravity, or a sky hook, without knowing what the tension actually is?? (ie, a krick-it or another gauge?)
Yup, "the olde sky hook" method has always worked for us. :D :D :D
1/2 inch deflection on the long length of the belt, and able to turn it 90 degrees by hand.
It might be very enlightening to see how that compares to a gauge! plus/minus 50% would be my guess. :donno:
kk
Ken : The Olde Farmers Almanac came out with the twist of 90 degrees or the 1/2" deflection.
Readers have been doing this for the last 100 years without any consequence.
A thought
Wow,
It's amazing at how such a simple device generates so much good conversations and ideas.
Phil: I made one almost identical to yours two boats ago and it's still in my boat tool bag. Just one of those hides I collect from another way to skin a cat. I see this thread with a bunch of right ideas and no real wrong ones. But then, I'm pretty simple minded.
Well; belated Merry CHRISTmas and a Very Happy New Year to all of the great people on here.
I'll be driving my munchkin down to FL next week so she can run her marathon at Disney but she promised we could come home in time for the Strictly Sail show in Chicago.
If any of you are there, please say Hi! I'll be the one walking around with his mouth hanging open drooling while looking at all the neat stuff I can't afford!
Steve
visit us at www.ocontoyachtclub.com (http://www.ocontoyachtclub.com) & www.warbirdsix.com (http://www.warbirdsix.com)
Been amused at all the conversation about belt tensioning ..... I really didn't think that much about the problem and several years ago
I noticed the excessive flop of the belt. So I merely loosened the nuts on the alternator and by pressing down with one hand I tightened
the nuts and .... success :clap Several outings later after my haul-out we left the yard for home and noticed SMOKE! Lots of it coming our of the cabin. ... steps off, doors open and ..... CRAP!!!!
I my fervor in tightening I overlooked the possibility of TOO TIGHT. What happened it the over tight belt put a side load on the salt water pump
which froze up, burning up the belt, twisting the pump off the holding bolts and shearing the inlet and outlet hoses.
Fortunately we had not got too far from the boat yard so got back and purchased a pump, hoses, and labor to install.
Valuable lesson for me. A little loose is batter that too tight. I would think that the tensioner mentioned might lead
to some over tightening if one was not vary careful.
I use the aforementioned tightener, have followed all tips for hardware - M10 instead of 3/8 bolt, I get the belt nice and tight and it doesn't stay tight. I do have the bracket upgrade.
Anybody else seeing this?
Your belt might be stretching. Is it a good quality Gates belt?
Mike
Paul : I mentioned this "tip" many times.
If you look at the bolts on your tension arm you'll find that the female is threaded all the way thru. Get yourself a bolt that is about 1/4 - 3/16" longer and you'll have more threads to hold. That will probably solve your "loosening" problem.
A thought
Quote from: Ron Hill on December 30, 2014, 12:55:46 PM
Paul : I mentioned this "tip" many times.
If you look at the bolts on your tension arm you'll find that the female is threaded all the way thru. Get yourself a bolt that is about 1/4 - 3/16" longer and you'll have more threads to hold. That will probably solve your "loosening" problem.
Ron, I have done that. I even went longer and have a locking nut on the back side.
A thought
Five things:
What belt make and number are you running.
Do you notice belt dust around the pulleys?
Have you marked the alt frame position on the arm - ie, is the adjustment actually slipping?
Have you aligned the alt with the crank and closed coolant pump so the belt is running true and square?
What width is the alt pulley and is it stamped or machined?
(maybe that makes 6).
kk
Quote from: KWKloeber on December 30, 2014, 08:34:48 PM
Five things:
What belt make and number are you running.
Do you notice belt dust around the pulleys?
Have you marked the alt frame position on the arm - ie, is the adjustment actually slipping?
Have you aligned the alt with the crank and closed coolant pump so the belt is running true and square?
What width is the alt pulley and is it stamped or machined?
(maybe that makes 6).
kk
Thanks for the list of things to check. I will have to get to the boat to answer some of them.
I have been seeing belt dust. I was attributing that to running with a loose belt.
I will put a mark somewhere to check. The alignment looks good, I put a right angle square to check. I don't know what you mean by "closing the coolant pump"?
What is the deal with stamped vs.machined alt pulleys? I will have to check that and belt size this weekend, I know it is a Napa.
Thanks for the help
Paul
Paul,
Yep, those things are key to drilling down to the cause.
RC had a pretty good discussion re: specifically the pulley and alignment issues - I don't recall if it was on his mainesail DIY website or on a SBO website post. Sometimes one posting is more complete or up to date on a topic than at the other location. A mismatch due to wrong width is possible. Sorry, I don't have links to it-maybe Stu or Ron?
Note that my: "closed coolant" pump (was vs "sea water coolant" pump.)
The best belt is a
Dayco Top Cog brand heavy duty with the top serrations - JTSO, others' mileage may vary. It's what my Wb supplier recommended several years ago and it eliminated any slippage issue for me, and is the only one I'll sell or recommend to customers.
Anything other than checking those causes and still slipping may be due to voodo or karma!
Ken
Quote from: Set2sea on December 30, 2014, 05:50:45 AM
I use the aforementioned tightener, have followed all tips for hardware - M10 instead of 3/8 bolt, I get the belt nice and tight and it doesn't stay tight. I do have the bracket upgrade.
Anybody else seeing this?
Yes, happens to me all the time.
In answer to Ken's question about links, it's in the "101 Topics", here:
Universal M-25 & M25XP Alternator Bracket Upgrade & Alignment 101 IMPORTANT
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7917.0.html
There's also a link in the Tech wiki, under Engines, IIRC.
Quote from: Stu Jackson on December 31, 2014, 11:22:58 PM
Quote from: Set2sea on December 30, 2014, 05:50:45 AM
I use the aforementioned tightener, have followed all tips for hardware - M10 instead of 3/8 bolt, I get the belt nice and tight and it doesn't stay tight. I do have the bracket upgrade.
Anybody else seeing this?
Yes, happens to me all the time.
In answer to Ken's question about links, it's in the "101 Topics", here:
Universal M-25 & M25XP Alternator Bracket Upgrade & Alignment 101 IMPORTANT
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7917.0.html
There's also a link in the Tech wiki, under Engines, IIRC.
So Stu, you have to re-tighten your belt every so often?
Paul,
Here's a link re: the Top Cog belt- read this post and the other follow ups.
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,8063.msg56701.html#msg56701
I recommend this belt
http://www.daycoproducts.com/dayco%C2%AE-gold-label%C2%AE-top-cog%C2%AE-belt-with-laminated-construction
RC prefers this one
http://www.daycoproducts.com/dayco%C2%AE-gold-label%C2%AE-top-cog%C2%AE-belt-with-bottom-cog-construction
I don't have the knowledge base that RC does, but my understanding is that a "solid bottom" belt against the pulleys creates less heat, than does a belt with bottom cogs (seems contrary but that's what Dayco claims anyway -- maybe less slippage and better heat transfer is my guess??) That contrasts with what RC says about the bottom cog style running cooler, but again he has infinite experience w/ belts. I have not heard of anyone who was disappointed using either of the Gold belts.
Cheers,
Ken K
Belt dust could be an indication that the pulleys are out of alignment, which causes accelerated belt wear. You can use a metal straight edge laid across the crankcase pulley to check if the alternator pulley aligns with the crank pulley.
I was able to correct this on mine by shimming the alternator bracket where it attaches to the engine.