Catalina 34

General Activities => Main Message Board => Topic started by: Steve Weiss on September 15, 2013, 09:05:52 PM

Title: Hit a rock today...
Post by: Steve Weiss on September 15, 2013, 09:05:52 PM
Oops. Not paying enough attention to what was going on (obviously) and I hit a submerged rock. I wasn't going very fast, maybe 3 knots. There was a bang and the boat came to a complete stop, fortunately I was able to fall off the wind and sail away without any further problem. I'm wondering if I should have the keel checked, or just wait a few weeks until we haul for the winter. There was no grinding or scraping, just one sudden bump. How likely is it that I damaged my keel?
Title: Re: Hit a rock today...
Post by: Stu Jackson on September 15, 2013, 10:12:08 PM
Steve, I did the same thing a few months ago.  So far, not an issue, I'll look for the gouge the next time I'm out.
Title: Re: Hit a rock today...
Post by: Lance Jones on September 16, 2013, 05:05:01 AM
If you are 100%  sure that the keel was the only thing to strike, at the minimum, I'd check the bilge for any additional water and look at the keel bolts. If the water is warm enough, don your mask and snorkel and do a check of the entire bottom.
Title: Re: Hit a rock today...
Post by: Steve Weiss on September 16, 2013, 06:25:49 AM
Quote from: Stu Jackson on September 15, 2013, 10:12:08 PM
Steve, I did the same thing a few months ago.  So far, not an issue, I'll look for the gouge the next time I'm out.

Stu, nice to know I'm not the only one prone to the occasional bone-headed move. Having your chart right there in the cockpit is good, actually looking at it is even better.
Title: Re: Hit a rock today...
Post by: Steve Weiss on September 16, 2013, 06:28:49 AM
Quote from: Lance Jones on September 16, 2013, 05:05:01 AM
If you are 100%  sure that the keel was the only thing to strike, at the minimum, I'd check the bilge for any additional water and look at the keel bolts. If the water is warm enough, don your mask and snorkel and do a check of the entire bottom.

I'm as sure as I can be without actually seeing it.  Like I said, there was just one sound, no grinding or scraping and an immediate stop, I think I even bounced back a little. I will check the bilge and keel bolts. The water in Maine is getting a bit cold, so a check of the bottom will have to wait until hauling probably.
Title: Re: Hit a rock today...
Post by: Stu Jackson on September 16, 2013, 11:09:32 AM
Quote from: Steve Weiss on September 16, 2013, 06:25:49 AM
Quote from: Stu Jackson on September 15, 2013, 10:12:08 PM
Steve, I did the same thing a few months ago.  So far, not an issue, I'll look for the gouge the next time I'm out.

Stu, nice to know I'm not the only one prone to the occasional bone-headed move. Having your chart right there in the cockpit is good, actually looking at it is even better.

Steve, you guys have a lot more rocks than we do.  I was furling my main in an area I'd been in over hundreds of times.  Just got too close to land, turned the boat to head out and whack!  Yeah, the chart showed the rock and when I did the tide height conversion I knew I'd just kissed the top of it.  I'd just never been in that particular spot before.  Never again...:D
Title: Re: Hit a rock today...
Post by: Gary on September 16, 2013, 11:40:03 AM
Can't resist sharing the Maine coastal saying " There are two kinds of sailors. Those that have hit rocks, and those that won't tell you they have hit rocks"

I think I am in the latter category.  :oops:

Gary
Title: Re: Hit a rock today...
Post by: Steve Weiss on September 16, 2013, 11:43:05 AM
Stu - normally when I go out I head through a nice wide channel that takes me past all the Islands near Portland out to open water. The channel gives me room to get the sails up. But yesterday the wind was coming straight in through that channel so I took an alternate route between two of the islands. I got the sails up but of course they all have rocky ledges and while I was fooling with the autopilot, bang! That lesson should last me a lifetime.
Title: Re: Hit a rock today...
Post by: Steve Weiss on September 16, 2013, 11:43:49 AM
Quote from: Gary on September 16, 2013, 11:40:03 AM
Can't resist sharing the Maine coastal saying " There are two kinds of sailors. Those that have hit rocks, and those that won't tell you they have hit rocks"

I fall in the latter category.

Gary

I'm not proud...  :D
Title: Re: Hit a rock today...
Post by: Ron Hill on September 16, 2013, 01:12:50 PM
Steve : If you don't have water entering the bilge and you have normal steerage, I'd plan on seeing a big dent/gouge when you pull out in a few weeks.  

As mentioned, if your curiosity gets the best of you and you have a warm wet suit, go down and take a look!  

a few thoughts
Title: Re: Hit a rock today...
Post by: Steve Weiss on September 16, 2013, 02:29:34 PM
Quote from: Ron Hill on September 16, 2013, 01:12:50 PM
Steve : If you don't have water entering the bilge and you have normal steerage, I plan on seeing a big dent/gouge when you pull out in a few weeks. 

As mentioned, if your curiosity gets the best of you and you have a warm wet suit, go down and take a look! 

a few thoughts

Ron - if I don't have water entering the bilge I'll be ok with a dent/gouge. I don't have a wetsuit (yet) so my curiosity isn't likely to win this time.
Title: Re: Hit a rock today...
Post by: stevewitt1 on September 17, 2013, 11:37:48 AM
Steve

If you don't do it on a regular basis, I believe the manual calls for checking the torque of the keel bolts after any grounding/strike.  So that might be a nice thing to do.

Sort of like GoldWing riders.  There are two kinds, Those that will admit they've accidently had their bike lay over on the roll bar and the liars.

Steve
Title: Re: Hit a rock today...
Post by: Steve Weiss on September 17, 2013, 12:00:29 PM
Quote from: stevewitt1 on September 17, 2013, 11:37:48 AM
Steve

If you don't do it on a regular basis, I believe the manual calls for checking the torque of the keel boats after any grounding/strike.  So that might be a nice thing to do.

Sort of like GoldWing riders.  There are two kinds, Those that will admit they've accidently had their bike lay over on the roll bar and the liars.

Steve

Steve- thanks. I'll definitely check that.
Title: Re: Hit a rock today...
Post by: Ron Hill on September 18, 2013, 08:15:16 AM
Steve ; The torque rating for the keel bolt nuts is 107 ft/lbs - incase you didn't know.
Title: Re: Hit a rock today...
Post by: Steve Weiss on September 18, 2013, 10:20:38 AM
Quote from: Ron Hill on September 18, 2013, 08:15:16 AM
Steve ; The torque rating for the keel bolt nuts is 107 ft/lbs - incase you didn't know.

I didn't know... thanks Ron.
Title: Re: Hit a rock today...
Post by: Analgesic on September 18, 2013, 03:16:17 PM
So, last year I (actually a new sailing friend at the helm) hit a rock going 3 or 4 knots, very loud bang, no grinding and no new water in the bilge  but I did haul the boat the next day and the fiberglass inspector said the rotational torque weakened the support areas of the hull surrounding the keel attachment area fore and aft which the surveyor agreed with.  $18,000 insurance dollars later the areas were ground down and then built back up, stronger than new I was told.  In addition, there was a baseball size chunk missing from the leading edge of my wing keel which needed a straight forward repair.  It all took about 6 weeks out of my Summer sailing season.  My main thought is that I'm glad I didn't assume everything was okay from the lack of bilge water coming in and sail hard putting normal lateral stress on the keel. 
Brian McPhillips
Title: Re: Hit a rock today...
Post by: Steve Weiss on September 18, 2013, 04:28:43 PM
Quote from: Analgesic on September 18, 2013, 03:16:17 PM
So, last year I (actually a new sailing friend at the helm) hit a rock going 3 or 4 knots, very loud bang, no grinding and no new water in the bilge  but I did haul the boat the next day and the fiberglass inspector said the rotational torque weakened the support areas of the hull surrounding the keel attachment area fore and aft which the surveyor agreed with.  $18,000 insurance dollars later the areas were ground down and then built back up, stronger than new I was told.  In addition, there was a baseball size chunk missing from the leading edge of my wing keel which needed a straight forward repair.  It all took about 6 weeks out of my Summer sailing season.  My main thought is that I'm glad I didn't assume everything was okay from the lack of bilge water coming in and sail hard putting normal lateral stress on the keel. 
Brian McPhillips

Yikes.
Title: Re: Hit a rock today...
Post by: Indian Falls on September 20, 2013, 07:10:56 AM
When I dropped and re-bedded my keel 2 seasons ago I was surprised how thin the floor of the bilge is.  I made large backer plates and installed them under the washers just to make me feel better.  I would throw a wrench on the nuts and see if you "get anything" on them.  Some will say you can't check them in the water but if you look at it, you've got 9 bolts holding 5,000lbs, that's under 600 lbs each, and the rated strength of that threaded rod exceeds 10,000 lbs.. so go ahead and check them,  the keel is hanging there anyway.  After my rebedding project I checked the torque often to see if the 5200 was squeezing down over time. It wasn't.  After a winter, still no detectable changes.  Whenever I contact the mud, sand bar in our harbor I check them.  I'm not seeing any loosening.  However a big rock is another matter.  Best of luck!
Title: Re: Hit a rock today...
Post by: Steve Weiss on September 20, 2013, 07:32:39 AM
Quote from: Indian Falls on September 20, 2013, 07:10:56 AM
When I dropped and re-bedded my keel 2 seasons ago I was surprised how thin the floor of the bilge is.  I made large backer plates and installed them under the washers just to make me feel better.  I would throw a wrench on the nuts and see if you "get anything" on them.  Some will say you can't check them in the water but if you look at it, you've got 9 bolts holding 5,000lbs, that's under 600 lbs each, and the rated strength of that threaded rod exceeds 10,000 lbs.. so go ahead and check them,  the keel is hanging there anyway.  After my rebedding project I checked the torque often to see if the 5200 was squeezing down over time. It wasn't.  After a winter, still no detectable changes.  Whenever I contact the mud, sand bar in our harbor I check them.  I'm not seeing any loosening.  However a big rock is another matter.  Best of luck!

Thanks, that's good information to know. The backing plates sound like a good idea if I ever want (or need) to re-bed the keel.
Title: Re: Hit a rock today...
Post by: BillG on September 21, 2013, 06:30:08 AM
There is a great article by Don Casey in October's edition of "Sail" magazine on keel damage.
Title: Re: Hit a rock today...
Post by: Steve Weiss on September 21, 2013, 06:35:43 AM
Quote from: BillG on September 21, 2013, 06:30:08 AM
There is a great article by Don Casey in October's edition of "Sail" magazine on keel damage.

It just arrived yesterday so I guess I'll be checking that out.
Title: Re: Hit a rock today...
Post by: mainesail on September 21, 2013, 05:28:57 PM
Quote from: Indian Falls on September 20, 2013, 07:10:56 AM
When I dropped and re-bedded my keel 2 seasons ago I was surprised how thin the floor of the bilge is.  I made large backer plates and installed them under the washers just to make me feel better.  I would throw a wrench on the nuts and see if you "get anything" on them.  Some will say you can't check them in the water but if you look at it, you've got 9 bolts holding 5,000lbs, that's under 600 lbs each, and the rated strength of that threaded rod exceeds 10,000 lbs.. so go ahead and check them,  the keel is hanging there anyway.  After my rebedding project I checked the torque often to see if the 5200 was squeezing down over time. It wasn't.  After a winter, still no detectable changes.  Whenever I contact the mud, sand bar in our harbor I check them.  I'm not seeing any loosening.  However a big rock is another matter.  Best of luck!

How thick on the 1990's boats? Our C-30 was pretty thin but cored with plywood.. I just saw a Hunter 340 with the keel off and the keel stub was well over an inch thick of solid glass....
Title: Re: Hit a rock today...
Post by: Indian Falls on September 24, 2013, 03:47:56 AM
I did not measure.
It looked to be about an inch but less than 2.
In the center compartment it wasn't as thick an 1/8" drill bit is long.
I drilled 4 air holes to help the 5200 make 100% fill in the between the keel step and the keel top.