I am in need of a new exhaust manifold for my XP25 engine. on my 1988 Cat 34. Can anyone direct me to the best place to get one? Also can you get them prewrapped with insulation wrap or do I need to get that insulation too and wrap it myself? . thanks in advance. Terry
Terry,
By your description of the insulation I assume you are talking about the exhaust riser. I had a new one of stainless built by Catalina 2 years ago. I sent the old one back with the Exhaust Flange included. They custom build a new one and wrapped the insulation and silver tape. Took all of two weeks and was about $230 plus or minus.
I contacted Catalina by email at their Customer service number listed under contacts on their WEB site. Since then I have contacted then 4 additional times for lifeline, topping lift etc. alway with a prompt response.
I do see that on catalinadirect.com they sell a riser pre configured, not sure how it would fit, i always thought these while mass produced also included a little custom tweaking.
Good luck,
Steve
Terry : As Steve mentioned, from your discreption you need a new exhaust riser (stainless pipe from the back of the engine to above the inlet to the muffler) and not an exhaust manifold that is bolted to the engine and is part of the coolant reservoir. Right??
If you need a new exhaust riser I'd recommend that you have it made locally so it's made to the right length. Don't forget to get a hump hose if you don't have one already.
A few thoughts.
Thanks. I got the name (exhaust manifold) from the C34 manual diagram but see now the difference. ( I am not a mechanic and these are foreign words to me) My old pipe is in 2 pieces; the end attached with the flange on the motor is still attached the other parted at the point where the small diameter pipe was welded to the main pipe. . I Am soaking the nuts on the flange with Blaster for a day or so since it is a hoiday weekend and I can't do much about it now anyhow. Question, the flange end attached to the back of the engine is not tight at all. Is that normal or should it be securely snug up to the mount when I install the now one? I read the instructions in the terchnical projects area and that was good info. I think I can do this.
Terry
Quote from: Terry Forshier on May 29, 2010, 06:28:26 AM
Question, the flange end attached to the back of the engine is not tight at all. Is that normal or should it be securely snug up to the mount when I install the now one?
I think I can do this.
Terry, sorry to hear about your condition, happened to me, too.
The answer to your question is that it is normal because there are threads on the riser and threads on the flange and the riser HAS to end up in a certain position to make it work to get into the space available to get under the head sink. For instance, if you screw the riser ALL the ay into the flange, the riser position may be at 12 o'clock, where you need it to be at 3 o'clock. That's why the threads should be sealed with muffler patch paste before the finish up the connection. When you take your flange off, you'll see. The pictures show the flange and the threads, one is from the engine side looking into the flange. The threads will eventually bottom out but the riser may not be in the right horizontal position.
Yes, you can do this. Usually the bottom nut is the hardest to get off, my top two were no problem, the bottom one took a week. Use never-seize when you put them back on.
Good luck.
Stu
Terry : There have many posts on changing out that exhaust riser.
To answer your question - all of the nuts holding on the flange should be tight!! What hasn't been mentioned so far is that you'll need a special new gasket from Universal and that that gasket seals the exhaust and the "COOLANT" into the reservoir !!! So before you remove that flange read my article that tells you to drain the coolant and even then be prepared to have coolant come out when the flange is removed!
Good Luck, not a hard project if you know what you're facing - like I DIDN'T so that's why I wrote the article so the readers would have a heads up !!
Here's a way to get the coolant out without using the petcock on the side of the engine: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4518.0.html (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4518.0.html)
Here's the gasket and the back of the flange that mates to the manifold. Be careful replacing/installing the gasket, the amount of gasket material around the bottom stud is tiny, so take care slipping it onto the studs. I recommend you buy two -- don't ask... :D
I am well into this now, riser off and sent in for new one. all parts ordered etc. ( incidently the local shop in Ft Lauderdale wanted $600+ to fabricate a new riser, I sent it to Catalina Direct this morning) BUT I now realize I do not have a coolent reserve tank on my boat at all. the line coming from the cap just drains down under the engine into the pan there. The P>O> also said there was no reserve tank. I guess it must not be too necessary?
Terry
Terry,
Interesting setup by the PO, eh? So do you see coolant in the pan under the engine where the line coming from the cap drains into? When the coolant expands and overflows it would go to the pan in your case, leaving a partially filled exhaust manifold when engine cools down.
The fix is quite simple. You can go get a Universal Coolant Expansion tank from any local Auto shop such as Kragen, Napa Auto parts etc. Some of them come with a metal mounting bracket some with holes in the plastic for mounting purposes. Mount the tank in a accessible place. Keep the bottom of the expansion tank at or above the level of the connection at the exhaust manifold. Connect with a suitable size high temperature capable marine hose with clamps on both sides and you are done. Keep the tank filled to the marked line and the see through wall will allow for easy viewing of the level of the coolant in the expansion tank. Just for your reference. below are links to units similar to the one I bought :
http://www.kragen.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=DOR&MfrPartNumber=91662&CategoryCode=3052 (http://www.kragen.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=DOR&MfrPartNumber=91662&CategoryCode=3052)
http://www.kragen.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=DOR&MfrPartNumber=603001&CategoryCode=3052 (http://www.kragen.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=DOR&MfrPartNumber=603001&CategoryCode=3052)
Attached is a picture from my installation where you can see the coolant expansion tank. Hope it helps.
Terry : Very interesting set up. You do not have a coolant reservoir, so I suspect that you could have a differant flange connecting connecting the exhaust riser to the engine!?!
My set up/flange etc is all the same. I just have the overfill hose leading down under the engine. No, I have not had overheating, no I do not have water under the engine and when I check the fill cap the fluid is pretty much at the top. I will go out and get a little kit as shown above but where are you putting it in the motor compartment?. If I recall there is not a lot of room over the cap since the top of the motor housing sits there? Terry
Quote from: Terry Forshier on June 02, 2010, 04:29:45 PMbut where are you putting it in the motor compartment?. If I recall there is not a lot of room over the cap since the top of the motor housing sits there?
Here's where ours is, mimicking Ron Hill's from his early Mainsheet Tech Notes suggestions, from back in the dark ages - like, pre-1988! :D
Ours is a tad below the fill, but works just fine since the tube is stuck in the bottom of the container. It's a Rubbermaid, less expensive solution. Scroll the picture over unless you already have a wide screen, upper right of photo.
Hi Terry,
Go with Stu's suggestion on placement of the expansion tank. My picture was for illustrative purpose since it is of the M25 I just installed in my Pearson 10M. As Stu will agree, I am blessed with a good amount of room around the engine... :D I am sure once you have the expansion tank you will find a place for it. I am kind of surprised that you don't haven't ever seen any coolant in the pan below. When the engine heats up and the coolant expands the cap allows the excess coolant to pass to the expansion tank -- in your case the pan at the bottom. When the engine cools down the cap then allows the coolant from the expansion tank to come in and replenish the quantity in the manifold --- in your case it would allow air to come in. That is how I remember the cap working....
Are you sure it is the overfill hose that you are looking at that goes down to the pan under your engine? Or is it the breather hose from the top of the crankcase you are looking at? I saw an M25 once where they had just blocked off the opening at the manifold that would go to the expansion tank. In this case the engine works without the expansion tank. This setup also works, I think, one just has to keep checking the level in the manifold by opening the cap rather than look at the level in the expansion tank. The later is obviously easier. Please don't be offended by my question. Just checking... :D
I went to Mainsails site today and was reading his topics. In his photos on the list of projects he shows a photo of his M25. You can see he does not have a coolant reserve tank either. His expansion line from the cap goes where mine does. Down the side of the engine.
Terry
Mine also just goes down under the engine and I have not noticed any loss of coolent or coolent in the bilge.
It still sounds like a good idea though, so I am considering getting one.
Mike
Terry : The whole idea of a coolant recovery system is NOT to save coolant, but to purge air from the system and let coolant expand and contract by itself. It also eliminates the necessity of ever opening the "radiator cap" to see if you need coolant to check the level.
Also the one component of RUST (oxygen) is eventually purged from the system keeping your coolant cleaner. A few thoughts
Terry,
I checked out the picture on Mains Sail's website that you may have seen. You may be correct, however, knowing Maine Sail, I am sure he has a expansion tank somewhere and the hose that seems to go down is then led back and up to a tank placed at a convenient location. Ron has explained the benefits of the tank quite eloquently.
I have purchased a coolant reserve tank from Auto pro at a cost of under $8.00 and plan to install it. I think it is a good idea just never had one before. I can see the benefits. When I get the riser back from Catalina Direct i plan to take the ends off the heat exchanger and clean that out then install the whole system with the reserve tank. I will keep everyone posted when i get there. Thanks much for all the data, photos etcv. i would never have figured this out on my own.
Terry
I just heard from Catalina Direct. It may take up to 4 weeks to get the new riser made. I had talked with them earlier and there was never any mention of this time frame. I am pretty disappointed as now it looks like the middle of July until i get going again. Too late to change now as i have sent them the old one all the way to California for a pattern. It would take another week to get it back then ?? to get one made here. Before you all tell me I told you so, I called several places in this area. they were either WAY more expensive ( $600 quotes) or had no idea of cost or what I needed and was asked to drive it up or across the state so they could quote it. A days time. Anyhow, heads up, so you all know to ask time frame when you order from Catalina Direct.
Terry,
Did you try Catalina Yachts Parts dept?
Terry : So you aren't out of the sailing business for 4 months while Catalina Direct screws around making you a new one here's, what I'd recommend:
Take some measurements and make your self a black pipe exhaust riser 1 5/8" diameter. Have a plumber cut and thread it for you. Weld in a 5/8" nipple for the raw water, some insulation and you'll be good to go.
Good luck - as making a black pipe exhaust rise is not that difficult!! Infact all of the 1986 and some of the 1987 & 1988 C34s came from the factory with a black pipe riser.
A thought