I've got some weeping and would like to replace the impeller. It appears as though I have a peculiar water pump....does anybody recognize this pump? Perhaps a source for a rebuild kit or at least the impeller and gaskets? Thanks in advance...
I have used Torresen Marine for my hard to find parts. They're pretty expensive but no more then ordering through your local chandlery would be.
I am a little confused by your post. Are you implying that the pump is a Sherwood pump and thus peculiar or that it is peculiar and thus not a Sherwood? I have the Oberdorfer and thus can only confirm that yours is not an Oberdorfer.
If yours is a Sherwood then you should be able to find what you need here: http://shop.torresen.com/ships_store/?p=results&kw=sherwood+impeller&x=0&y=0.
Braxton, it is indeed a Sherwood, but everybody else's looks like this...
Michael's question is based on the fact that I couldn't help him. The pump cover does say Sherwood, but I have not seen this style on an M25 before. All the Sherwoods I have seen have the 3 mounting screws on the motor side of the pump housing.
It was after hours when I looked at it, had my clean clothes on. The model number may be found after removal and cleaning, but I didn't take the time Saturday night. Then again it might be on a tag held on by one of the screw heads that was long ago lost.
Crisis averted, found everything BECAUSE...(whisper)... :shock:...it was all in the WIKI...!!! :clap :thumb: 8)
Michael, now that you got it, here's a link to what looks like your pump. It's called the "old" Sherwood pump. Torrensen's also got the new pump in the group index. For those who aren't familiar with the Torrensen and marinedieseldirect websites, you should bookmark it, as well as using the wiki and the manuals on our C34 website.
http://www.marinedieseldirect.com/catalogs/catalog_group.php?owner=mdd&page_ident=200142-56&model=M-25%20/%20M-25XP%20/%20M-25XPA&manufacturer=Universal&title=Sherwood%20Water%20Pump%20-%20300986&quant_position=&catalog=200142&printparts=&printservice=&printoperators=&comment1=
and for the record, the globe impeller part # for the "old" sherwood is 1130.
It was once known as "The Proud" Sherwood M-5 before being demoted to "the old sherwood". Perhaps I have the last of the known "old" sherwoods? Who knows, it may be a nice addition to a maritime museum somewhere...once she finally gives up the ghost of course!
And again, thanks Stu. If you hadn't had a hand in the wiki evolution I'd warn you to watch out...it may give you a run for your money! :wink:
Michael,
Thanks, but give credit where credit is due. While I played a hand in the development of the original Projects & FAQs, which are the backbone of the new wiki startup, I did not do the wonderful work of transferring them from the older "static" pages to the wiki.
The May 2009 Mainsheet magazine will discuss that work, and ALL of the thanks are to Ken Juul, Craig Illman and Jon Schneider for ALL of that work.
Michael - I think there still will be opportunities for Stu to identify "wiki-worthy" threads to consolidate, classify, edit and archive.
Craig
OH BOY, Mike, NOW look what you've got myself into! :D :D :D :abd:
Guys...while we're on the subject of pump...that reminded me of the problems with the belt being locked in by hoses of the pump.
One thing we have to remember is that the belt will probably let go when the motor is running (!!!) and that means that your under way in a channel, approaching a marina, etc..... (and at the worst time) and if the belt goes you won't have much time to replace it.
What I've done is I removed the existing one (so I know that it fits and because having been use it easier to manipulate) and slid it along the hose and with a tie wrap secured it.
I installed a new one witch mean having to disconnect the hose to pass the new belt and reconnected the hose. Now I'm ready to go. If that new one lets go then within a few minutes the old one is back in its place and ready to take over.
If you look at the above picture you'll see that the hose DOES go Thu the belt. I'm attaching a few pictures of my installation...one is the general look of the engine.....then a zoomed one and then one from the front door.
You'll see the pump (dead center) and the old belt with the wrap on the right hand side (where you see green on the other hose).
Hope it's clear and might help someone in a "crisis" situation
Here's the pictures
It's a very good idea to have replacement parts near to hand. Only concern I have about your photos is: on a very heavy port tack, is there a possibility that the lower end of the replacement belt could come in contact with any moving parts? Thanks for the photos.
[Captive drive belt - added for search purposes - Stu 4/13/09]
Great idea! Another nice feature is that you'll never have to try and remember where (or even if) you stored your spare belt. :thumb:
Now THAT'S thinking ahead of the curve...I see where you're belt is locked in by a hose...nice!
For clarification, the pic of my "old sherwood" is a bit deceiving...the hose you mention is the crankcase vent. The other end is attached to nothing...dangles over the "oil diaper" under the motor...belt isn't trapped at all. I've yet to (as Ken reminded me) properly "plumb" it into the air intake. The list never ends...
...not to mention the Encyclo-Wiki-Stu'ster is real good about keeping that list in the forefront of our minds... :idea: :think
Thanks for the comments guys...and Stu just to reassure you that the belt was secured AFTER the pictures were taken.
my 87 M25XP has the old style sherwood pump, and although it was "rebuilt" a year ago, I still had weeping issues last season.
I would just as soon replace it... so what is the recommended replacement? The old has a 4-bolt attachment... from the pics of the newer one... doest appear it would be a direct swap out.
Would love to hear what others have done.
Well, at a minimum, there are at least two "old sherwood"s left on the planet... :D
On second thought, the existence of your sherwood may be devaluing mine... :think
Tom, did you personally rebuild it? I just received all the components to refresh the little guy...restore it to it's former glory, if you will. I ordered everything but the cover, shaft and housing...hope it isn't a lost cause...
Quote from: Tom Glennon on March 30, 2009, 01:57:57 PMI would just as soon replace it... so what is the recommended replacement? The old has a 4-bolt attachment... from the pics of the newer one... doest appear it would be a direct swap out.
Tom, the Oberdorfer is a straight swap. Oberdorfer Model 202 M-15
Also look up DEPCO on this board for a source. many discussions on Oberdorfer, Depco and Sherwood. The advantage is that the Oberdorfer is serviced easily from the front, although ken Juul has reported that he has no trouble with his Sherwood access.
Rarely do the bodies of the pumps go bad, but rather the seals and bushings which make it weep which is the warning to replace them.
Redoing the seals by a yard is almost as expensive as replacing the whole pump! If you learn to DIY, it's a no brainer: keep the pump and repair the guts.
Thanks Stu.
I did have all the components but not a press for the "cup seals" so had a yard do it.
They were expensive, and in hind sight, I should have done it myself!
Quote from: Tom Glennon on March 31, 2009, 11:56:12 AM...and in hind sight, I should have done it myself!
Tom,
Me, too! :D Calder has a good description of how to do it. He used deep well sockets.
Maine Sail also provided a good visual description of this on co.com, "Rebuilding a Water Pump" here: http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=106156
very informative guys (and MS)...thankx!
normally the hardest to replace part is the shaft. If your shaft is still in good shape, the rebuild should be straight forward. Mine was shot, visable wear just using straight edge. Bought a new one, old one finally went in the trash after sitting on the corner of the work bench for about a year. Couldn't figure out any McGiver uses for it :?
I have the same on my M-25
This is a Sherwood pump.
The impeller kit Sherwood 10077K is what you need but i tell it by memory.
'm actualy in Florida but come back in Quebec Ca. next week.
I will verify the kit no. as soon as possible. BUT I'M PRETT SHURE i gave you the wright no.
Be very carefull when you remove the impeller...
D'ONT PULL the shaft... Otherwise you will must remove the pump completely to replace the pin (inside) coupling.
There is a little snap ring to retain the impeller.
You remove this snap-ring and push with a screwdriver on the end of the swaft and pull the impeller with pliers.
Excuse my english........
Quote from: Fou Du Large on April 02, 2009, 06:13:44 AM
Be very carefull when you remove the impeller...D'ONT PULL the shaft... Otherwise you will must remove the pump completely to replace the pin (inside) coupling.
This has been an "urban myth" with some limited justification for many years. The very, very, very early engines?/pumps? reportedly had a shaft with an indent in it. If so, this "don't pull it" concept is true. Ya just don't know until ya pull it.
However, all the rest of the time, over 99% or more, the newer pumps had a male shaped type fitting at the end of the pump shaft, and there is no reason it cannot be removed and replaced without pump removal. It fits right back into the engine, 100% of the time.
How do you know? You worry like I did and the first time when trying to take the ring off the impeller while the shaft is still in the pump in the engine, the shaft slipped out of the pump and engine! I didn't have a choice.
If your PO left you a spare shaft you could look, too.
The Oberdorfer pump shows part #7 with the slight protrusion (male end) towards the pump. See: http://www.marinedieseldirect.com/catalogs/catalog_group.php?owner=mdd&page_ident=200142-57&model=M-25%20/%20M-25XP%20/%20M-25XPA&manufacturer=Universal&title=Orberdorfer%20Water%20Pump&quant_position=&catalog=200142&printparts=200142&printservice=200151&printoperators=200157&comment1=
I remove the shaft all the time when doing maintenance to check the shaft and replace the impeller.
If you have a specific engine serial number (or boat # - which must be very, very low) where this occurred, please let us know, because it's not the pumps or else different pumps and different pump manufacturers all wouldn't work in our similar engines.
Let's hear from you.
QuoteYa just don't know until ya pull it...
Well, I pulled it...and it was a totally harmless experience. "Ye Old Sherwood" has been restored to all of it's former prowess. Just a small contribution of 76 bones preserved a bit of maritime history...truly a selfless act. :D
ps. If it gives up on me in short order, donations for one of those shiny new Sherwoods will be graciously accepted! :shock:
Guys : I just installed a new M25XPB with a new model Sherwood #G908 raw water pump. I really pumps more water than the Oberdoffer!!
BTW, I also routed the raw water inlet hose so the drive belt in NOT captive by any water hoses and can be easily changed. Same set up could be for the M35B engine.
Watch the Mainsheet for a Tech Note article and pictures - coming soon!! :clap
Ron...you put this M25XPB in Apache?? :nail
Michael : Sure did!!
I'm still in the engine break-in mode, but IMPRESSED with the way it moves the boat thru the water.