Hi folks,
Stopped by Sam's Club (not a member, but wanted to check out batteries), looking for Trojan batteries. Looks like they don't carry them, and the brand they have is Engergizer. Every size they have is the Engergizer brand. Sticker says 'Dist. by Johnson Controls Battery Group'. The 6vold golf cart battery is model EGC2. Reserve capacity says '105' (could this be a Trojan 105 twin?). Amp hours is 220. Cost is $71.28. Certainly not the $40 something price as years past, but still not bad. Wondering if anyone has information on these batteries.
Thanks!
They are mysterious. All I can tell you is that I bought four of them last year, and they've been fine so far, but a year's worth of light duty is hardly much of a test. I'll let you know in five years or so if I'm still satisfied with them :wink:
I'd agree with Jon. Installed mine about 1 1/2 years ago and still very happy, but they don't get much of a workout here on the lake...
Cheers,
Rick
I have had mine now going into it's fifth season with no problems, also using a xantrex 20 amp charger. Maybe this year, whether they need it or not, I think I will replace them just to be on the safe side since they aren't extremely costly. For me, it has been a great value.
I know that the threads on 6v are plenty. What are the primary advantages to them vs 12v and I have 2 banks of series 27 12v, how many 6v would replace them?
Quote from: pogmusic on March 16, 2009, 07:29:57 AM
I know that the threads on 6v are plenty. What are the primary advantages to them vs 12v and I have 2 banks of series 27 12v, how many 6v would replace them?
The only way to answer that would be to know how many AH each of those banks offers. Two golf-cart-sized 6V batteries typically deliver between 200 and 250AH at 12V. The ones we're talking about deliver 220AH, but know that you always have to pair 6V batteries in order to gross them up to 12V. The advantage is that they tend to be longer-lasting and more durable (but brand quality is a factor here) and usually offer more power per square inch of floor space due at least in part to the fact that they tend to be taller than their 12V brothers. In the case of at least the Mk I, they provide a way to really maximize the amount AH in the starboard aft-most settee where most of us have most of our house power supply. I have 440AH coming out of that space with four 6V batteries. That would not be possible with Group 24/27/31 batteries, because the most you could fit in that space would be three, and those batteries tend not to deliver more that 120AH. It did occur to me recently that four Optima 12V batteries might fit in there (haven't confirmed this), which would actually deliver 480AH in that space, albeit at a higher price/AH.
I know I should read the threads; but, I learn better by asking questions. I take it you wire the 6v in series? Also, could I replace one bank w/6v and leave the other 12v until I get the replacement 6v? Yes, price is an issue?
Quote from: pogmusic on March 16, 2009, 08:27:49 AM
I take it you wire the 6v in series? Also, could I replace one bank w/6v and leave the other 12v until I get the replacement 6v? Yes, price is an issue?
Yes, in series, and there's no problem combining a 12V bank composed of 12V batteries with another 12V bank composed of 6V batteries in serial. Price may be an issue. If you buy a Group 27 deep cycle flooded cell 80AH battery from WM, you'll pay $1.50/AH ($120 for the battery). If you buy two Energizer 6V flooded cells from Sam's Club, you'll pay .65/AH ($145 for the pair). You could definitely get a cheaper deep cycle battery than one from WM, but that was easy for me to look up. You could also get a much more expensive 6V battery, which could invert the value equation. In fact, if you buy WM 6V batteries, you'd be paying $1.77/AH, so perhaps that's a fairer comparison.
Good answer!!!! One other question. I have added the WM batter accessory terminals so I simply clip in my bilge pump and solar charger to the appropriate +/- terminal. With it being in serial, would I put the + on one end of the series and the - on the other end?
Quote from: pogmusic on March 16, 2009, 09:35:18 AM
I have added the WM batter accessory terminals so I simply clip in my bilge pump and solar charger to the appropriate +/- terminal. With it being in serial, would I put the + on one end of the series and the - on the other end?
That's exactly right, although I've never been able to rationalize in my head why it matters, since the whole grid is 12V. Guess that it's theoretically a better flow of electrons.
Or do I jsut pick two posts on the same battery?
Lance,
STOP for a second, and think about the 6V batteries you have now connected into a 12V "bank" you have created. If you connect to the 12V positives you're fine, if you connect to the 6V positive intermediate points it won't work (or at half speed). Just connect to the + on the 12V sides of the BANKS, not the interconnecting wiring between the 6V batteries.
And, dare I suggest doing a wiring diagram if you haven't already? That'll almost answer your question, and a good thing to have for future reference.
Stop? I didn't even know I was moving. :shock: So, you say on 6v battery 1 place a +/-terminal and then on 6v battery 2 place the opposite terminal for accessories?
Another good primer I stumbled upon, in addition to this (scroll to the top to start the thread): http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=0.52&TOPIC_ID=19250#144657 (http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=0.52&TOPIC_ID=19250#144657) is this (from the same C25 MB discussion): http://www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm. It includes this picture of the difference between 12V and 6V wiring, which you already have installed. Scroll down on this link for a picture of more than two batteries connected in a bank.
So, forget about the 6V side of things, and simply concentrate on the 12V end of the system. Like, forget you have wired (2) 6V batteries together, and just use the end posts of the 12V "bank." Eliminate any confusion that way, keep it simple. Use the lower right and upper left posts of the 12V bank shown in the right hand 6V wiring diagram [6 volt wiring diagram] below.
Lance, you can start movin' again now! :D :D
:clap Nothing clearer than a picture!
Stu,
In thinking more about the 6v v 12v issue, I realise I replace one 12 v with two 6v in series. How would I connect the 6v to the bank from the power switch? Would I run both -/+ to one side of the selector (i.e. both positives to battery 1 and bothe negatives like wise? Now I have the 12v + to one side and - to ground. As they are parallel, no issue with one cable.
Lance, I'm not sure I'm really following your question, so Stu and others will probably do a better job answering, but you never connect both the pos and neg to the selector switch. The selector switch interrupts the positive line only. So, you would take the one pos cable from Stu's schematic and run that to the either the number one or two position on the selector switch (whichever one wasn't be used). You would run the neg cable from Stu's schematic to a negative post on your standard 12V bank if that post also served as a conduit to the engine ground (it's likely to go to a bus strip behind your panel with a branch off that bus to the engine as a ground). Simple as that. Oh, except don't forget to fuse the positives near the batteries.
That's basically what I was saying. However, since they are now in series (Assuming I've replaced two 12v with two x 2 6v), would I take the + lead for BOTH 6v on that bank to that banks respective post on the switch?
Lance, please go back and read the link I provided in Reply (Lucky) #13, this one: http://www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm. Try the text, too.
Not only does it have the same picture I posted, but below it shows more than a single battery arrangement comparing 12V and 6V banks.
Jon's right only the + go to the switch. And only the + from each individual BANK.
Again, in your mind, stop thinking about the individual 6V batteries, and think of each pair of them as a 12V battery, and draw the wiring diagrams before you do anything. Draw what you have now, and then draw what the new setup would be. Then you can scan them in and post them here and we'd be more than glad to comment.
Also check out the wiki stories about electrical systems, "Electrical Panel, Wiring & Lighting," like this one which shows wiring for (4) 6V batteries in a single large house bank scroll down the article (and read it), to Wiring Revisions and there's a complete wiring diagram showing what you are asking about: http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Catalina_34_Electrical_System_Upgrade
Stu,
Thanks! That was the Paul Harvey, "Now for the rest of the story" moment. Fully understand now. Well, at least until after lunch. Then with it being St. Patty's and me playing a gig tonight, I may not remember anything past 2130hrs!!!!!
Remember, there are only two types of people on St. Patty's day -- the Irish and the ones what drives them home! 8) :party