It's time to replace Surprise's cutless bearing. However, in the process I would like to move the shaft a few inches to make sure that it isn't worn excessively in the stuffing box (getting quite a bit of dripping). I have plans for a tool that will enable me to remove and install the bearing without removing the shaft from the boat.
If I loosen the shaft coupling, will I need to realign the shaft when I put everything together? If so, I would rather just pull the shaft out of the coupling. I am hoping that someone has a suggestion for a method to slip the shaft out of the coupling.
Vic Suben
I just finished removing my coupling on Sunday. The method I used was posted on this board - I I first removed the flange coupling bolts and separated the two coupling flanges. I then placed a small socket wrench socket (any metal cylinder with diameter lesss then 1") against the end of the shaft at the flange, and pushed the flanges together to temporarily hold the socket in place. I then connected the flanges with long bolts/nuts, and started tightening them. This method basically presses the shaft out of the coupling. The corrosion was bad, and I had to use this method until the shaft was just about pushed all the way out - it never broke free. Had to use several length bolts and lots of washers to prevent the bolts from hitting the rear of the transmission. Not a fun job, but based on my experience, I don't think banging and heat would have been an alternative. I feared bending the flanges, but they still mated true after it was all over.
My shaft has wear at the stuffing box, and I will be replacing it with stainless. AQ19 alloy was recommended to me by two shaft mfrs. I am interested in details of your cutless tool - my shaft is removed, but I still need to replace the bearing.
the Cat 36 organization has a great tool exchange program including a cutless bearing removal tool. Any chance that we could use some of our dues money to do the same thing.
Bill
Why not just do what BobK did? : http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=3318.0
BillG,
If you are interested, there are at least 3 more members that would be interested in splitting the price of the removal tools. If we could get a few more people and decided how we would share the tool, I would be willing to kick in some money. The C34 group as a whole did not appear interested in this, so maybe approaching the C36 group would be an idea also.
Cheers
I think the $45/3yr C36 associate membership is a pretty good deal. One of these days I'll try and get the optical tach from Tom S's toolbox. I don't understand why ALL the C34 owners don't belong and participate in our organization. I've learned so much and this group adds so much value to the class. The membership fee is a pitance compared to even a typical visit to WM.
Craig
(tired of the rain and now snow/ice/cold in Seattle)
I've have consistently maintained that the similarities between the systems on the C34 and C36 makes it a "natural" to do a few things: either peruse or join the C36 website Message Board; review the information on their homepage; read ALL of the Mainsheet magazine (the C36 group were the leaders in identifying the secondary engine mounted fuel filter bracket issues), and also consider the C30 and its engine and systems as fellow travelers! Besides, the C36 guys are wonderful, and Craig and Tom Soko have contributed to our site, and we have to theirs. The only downside I can see to joining their organization, too, is that you'd get two Mainsheet magazines. :clap
Vic : To answer your question, no you'll not screw up engine alignment by just separating the flange (w/drive shaft) from the engine and shoving it back 4 inches. That way you can see what the drive shaft looks like that in the cutless bearing. Just DO NOT do anything with the engine mount adjustment nuts!!
Think that I'd make a mark (magic marker) so I mated the flange back to the same holes that it was in. :thumb:
Stu,
As Craig alluded to, the associate membership in C36IA does NOT include Mainsheet. For $15/year, it's one of the best bargains in boating, IMHO. It was designed for owners who get their Mainsheet from an All-Catalina Association, etc. We are an equal-opportunity association, and currently have many associate members who do not own C36's. I think officially you cannot vote as a non-C36 owner, but that doesn't seem to bother too many people. You are 100% correct in the similarities in systems between the two (three?) boats. There are lots of VERY smart owners out there, and it's great to soak up some of their knowledge.
Tom Sokoloski (Soko)
C36IA Vice Commodore
Now that I see a new stainless shaft cost over $200, I am having 2nd thoughts about replacing my original bronze shaft. Yes, it is worn at the stuffing box (the shaft wear is easily visible - the diameter is about 1/32 less at the worst point). Does this wear really matter? Wouldn't more packing take up the worn spot, or will I always be fighting excessive dripping? Why is stainless better? I suppose there will be less wear at the stuffing box, but is it desirable in any other ways?
Thanks always,
Bob
If we have at least 5 people willing to share the cost of the tool, each of us would have to kick in about $80.00. We could share the tool among ourselves, and whoever used it last would be responsible for keeping it until someone else in the group wants it.
If we want to recoup our investment the tool could be rented to others for a nominal fee, and the fee split among those who purchased the tool.
Please let me know what you think of this idea.
Vic
One of the benefits of being a member of the C34 IA is that you can utilize the group effort in positive ways. Perhaps instead of "going it alone" you might want to take a page out of the C36 Association's handbook, and volunteer to provide a service to your own Association's membership. If you're in a hurry to do this work and need to the tool, by all means go ahead, but you may want to consider discussion of the Associations' purchase of the tool, too, to benefit all the members, so that five of you aren't out of pocket.
Thanks for the suggestions Stu.
Please let me know how we go about getting the C34IA to purchase the tool.
Thanks,
Vic
Vic
I recommend writing to Commodore Jon Arck at jonarck@kelarc.com, summarizing this thread or simply linking it, and requesting that the Association purchase the tool for X amount for use by C34 IA members (only). I keep the list of membership as secretary. Jon will have to go to the Officers to get it approved as an expense to the Association. From what I've heard, the deal is simple, just requires someone to administer it, mail and it get it returned. I don't know how the C36 IA deals with the postage, so Craig Illman may help out on this part. I assume you're "volunteering" to be "da man!" Thanks for the idea.
Guys : Fleet 12 took the money sent from the C34IA and purchased a cutlass bearing tool. We also bought a Loos rigging gage and my keel nut tightening tool. So now we have 3 Fleet 12 tools!!
Ask your C34 fleet to do the same!!!! :thumb:
I haven't taken advantage of the C36 Org toolbox, but I think you just re-imburse Tom Senator for the postage/shipping when you return the tool. After Ron's posting, I think we all just need to join Fleet 12. :thumb:
Craig
Continued at: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=3318.0
Bob,
A few thoughts on shaft wear:
Silicone bronze is the ideal material for a prop shaft for our boats, especially in salt water. It's strength is more than adequate, and it's corrosion resistance is outstanding. If you have a bronze prop, nut, etc. It is the best material to use for a shaft. Stainless is becoming very popular, but only AQ22 is recommended for use in salt water. It would be the desired material if you have a prop or shaft seal with stainless components. Mixing metal below the waterline is simply building a better battery. When you install components, you should attempt to keep the metal as homogeneous as practical--which might mean switching to stainless. Regardless, proper maintenance of the shaft zinc is critical. Some shaft couplings electrically isolate the running gear from the engine, which is good. The stock coupling supplied by Catalina does not.
With a conventional gland, there is generally some wear around the area exposed to the packing. Unfortunately, this is usually the result of over-tightening the gland in an attempt to stem the flow of water. But your reward for minimal shaft wear is a wet bilge. Quite a few posts regarding packing material and adjustment; but the bottom line is that if you desire a dry bilge and want to avoid shaft wear completely, a mechanical seal is the solution, although some folks have had good luck with gore-tex packing or other "dripless" products.
If your shaft is worn, you can simply re-pack, but if you want to keep the wear under control, accept some leaking--or you can install a mechanical seal assuming the collar does not mount in the same location that the shaft is worn. The popular PSS seal has a stainless collar and screws, which is NOT ideal for mounting on a bronze shaft, but may prove to be adequate for a few years. Unfortunately, to install the seal, the shaft has to be removed.
If you decide to replace the shaft, you might consider having one turned at a local machine shop--if you do, you are assured of proper fit when you replace it.
The most inexpensive solution is to simply re-pack. You may want to upgrade your packing material to gore-tex. Even with conventional flax, you may get many years of service out of your slightly warn shaft--especially if you don't mine some water in the sump. Also, you can change the 1 5/8" ID hose that attaches the gland to the shaft log--by adjusting the length, you are changing the spot that the packing nut tightens, thus moving your packing to a point on the shaft that is not worn.
Cheers,
Mike
If you've removed the shaft you can easily remove the cutless bearing with a hack saw blade , small screwdriver and hammer. Just score the bearing with the saw blade and then gently fold it onto itself using the screwdriver and a few taps of the hammer. the bearing will come right out once you bend it a little. I have recently completed this project including shaft (SS), coupling, bearing, and folding prop install. I will provide any info you need just email skisail42@aol.com with your questions. :D
Since not everyone is a member of a local fleet, our intent was to provide a C34 IA tool. The IA offer to purchase one was declined, although it would be offered by one member as a loaner at some cost to those who would like to borrow it. It seems like lots of you already have the tool. For those that would be willing to loan it, why not just perk up here and let folks who may need it know you're willing, and just find each other. Alternatively, try the C36 IA Associate Membership. I guess, after all, the point is that there seem to be enough out there that we may not need to have the C34 IA provide one, unless, as previously suggested, one of you would volunteer to do so. The C36 IA provided me with details of how they manage their loaner, which isn't difficult or time consuming.
All,
Thanks for the advice and pointers regarding cutless removal, shaft wear, etc. Mike, I especially like your suggestion to change the length of the hose to move the packing wear point on the shaft. Well, I took advantage of the beautiful weather today and removed my cutless bearing. My home-made press did not work, as the brass on the old cutless was soft and it crumbled and deformed when pressure was applied. The hacksaw and screwdriver method did the trick. I was somewhat alarmed at the soft metal on the cutless ends - it was slightly pink, and looked like it was galvanically corroded. I also saw evidence of this on the bearing surface of the strut also. So I am wondering if a zinc is needed on the strut. Has anybody else seen anything like this?
Bob,
I had noticed some pitting on strut and it was recommended that I install a zinc there. I installed a clamshell zinc on the strut and I have had to replace it twice in 3 years. No more problems with my strut.
Jack