I am currently living in Panama City Beach, Fl, an it looks like we might move to SEA. I was wondering what the sailing is like there. Several issues come to mind, climate, wind scenery, cost and slip availability and general cost. etc? Any input from you pacific northwest guys would be appreciated.
Yngvepau
The short answer:
Climate: You can sail year-round, winds in the summer are typically lighter. Rarely any thunderstorms to get concerned about. Winds are usually out of the NE or SW.
Scenery: We're spoiled, being able to see mountains on all but the rainiest days. Puget Sound has a lot of housing along the waters, but still quite forested. Only a few really severely urban areas, like downtown Seattle or Tacoma.
Moorage: Slip availability is difficult, it can easily be a one year wait. Costs for a 34 could range from $250-450/month, depending on whether you're directly on the sound in Seattle, on the lake behind the locks, or farther south or north from the urban concentrations.
All said, there's a lot of deep water and plenty of interesting places to explore, including up to Canada and Alaska. Tidal ranges are about 12ft daily, so currents in places are always a consideration.
Craig
Any moorings available while you are waiting for a slip?
IMHO, Puget Sound is one of the best places in the world for sailboat cruising. Tons of islands, great scenery and protected waters. Inland waters all the way to Alaska.
There is very high demand for slips, especially in the central sound area. But, there seems to always be availability if you're willing to either drive an hour or two, or moor on Lake Union (just a few bridges and a trip through the locks from the sound). I'm currently moored on Lake Union while I await a slip at the Everett Marina. Great little marina, with good people, and it's close to work. The reasons I'm moving to Everett: closer to the San Juan and Gulf Islands, closer to home (further from work though, and less expensive.
re: Moorings. You don't find much in the way of commercial mooring buoys in Puget Sound, most likely because of the depths along the shorelines. It's 700 feet deep between where my slip is and the opposite side about four miles away. Even Lake Washington, on the east side of Seattle has depths over 200 feet one mile offshore. The glaciers dug some pretty deep troughs about 10,000 years ago. As Wind Dancer mentioned, with some diligent calling, you could probably find some space. I'm amazed that brokers can even sell boats around here over forty feet where the waiting lists can be two to five years depending on the marina. My boat went straight into charter when I bought it and I didn't have to deal with finding a place to keep her. I wish there was some local clearinghouse where all the moorage providers could list what they currently have available. Some places have websites, but I think your best luck would be with a telephone.
Get a copy of the local boating magazine http://www.48north.com There are typically ads for some of marinas in it.
Craig
We live about 15 Miles straight west of downtown Seattle but a world away on the Kitsap peninsula. We pay about $164.00 a month for a slip (the price includes unmetered electricity) for our C34. Of course the down side is that it is an ~hour commute by ferry, if you work or live on the Seattle side of the Sound. My employer is a Seattle firm but I work from home and our house is only a couple of miles from the marina so the commute is not an issue for us.
I agree with previous posts that the area is one of the great places to cruise and race. It does get a bit soggy and cool during the monsoon season but I find it a great time to catch up on maintenance and upgrades.
This is probably a stupid question, but if the Puget Sound is so deep, how do you guys anchor for an overnight stay. I assume you don't carry 700' of rode?
Well, it's not that deep everywhere. There are shallow bays to tuck into or some state marine parks have mooring buoys or we find guest slips at marinas. There's just a lot of deep water over 200' close to shore in many places. You might go to NOAA's site, download some free ENC charts and take a look.
Craig
There are good books by the Baileys called "Gunkholing the San Juans" among others that are invaluable aids to sailing in the PNW. Check for them on Amazon or other book sites.
Quote from: Stu Jackson on October 27, 2006, 09:43:37 AM
There are good books by the Baileys called "Gunkholing the San Juans" among others that are invaluable aids to sailing in the PNW. Check for them on Amazon or other book sites.
x2 on the Bailey's. Also pick up a Waggoners for some good info.
There are anchorages to be found. There are some bays that are even too shallow to enter nevertheless anchor. The deep water is 200 ft+ off the shoreline.
Edit: I just realized the previous poster was talking about mooring bouys, not anchorages. That's true, there are few mooring bouys to be found these days, and the environmental property-rights restrictions for putting your own down are plentiful.
Just replied to your post in Sailing Anarchy. If the Chesapeake is still a possibility, there are a bunch of east coast sailers on this board too.
Since we have done both Florida/Bahamas 13 years and NW 9 years I have a comparative view. Of course, the water down there is awesome, but storms, summer bugs etc are a pain. We moved Voyager up to the NW after Francis took it's toll. The NW is all about scenery, hiking trails, and fantastic summers (spring and fall are good too, I've heard but we only sail about 60 days during the summer). Desolation Sound is the best, as the bay waters approach 70 degrees. San Juans are in a rain shadow sosummers quite dry. Many anchorages, villages/towns and out of the way beautiful spots. Getting Voyager up here cost about 7800 by semi truck with Dudley Boat Company. There were cheaper companies but they had a good local reputation. The last 2 summers I have enjoyed stress free cruising, with Max winds in the low 30's, compared to some of the winds that exceed 50 knots in squalls in the SE. We pay 187 a month for dry storage in Anacortes.
As has been previously posted, permanent moorage in Puget Sound takes time.
We live a little over 1 hour south of Seattle in Olympia. We are on a waiting list (number 3) to get permanent moorage at $248.00 a month, includes power. The boat is currently moored at the guest dock, where there is plenty of room.
South Puget Sound (Olympia) has a lot of 20-30ft water. There are also many shallow bays to anchor in where the water is 100-200 ft. outside the bays. Lots of open water with very few boats.
Middle sound (Seattle area) will cost you more and the water is deeper, but may be more convenient to those going north. Many more boats for the given amount of water, but still not what you would see on lakes, or in the Florida area.
North sound (Everett to Bellingham) is a little cheaper than the Seattle area. We spent the summer with our boat moored in Bellingham (dealer allowed us 3 free months moorage) and visited the San Juans and the South end Gulf Islands. Moorage in Bellingham (3 year waiting list) allowed us to be in the San Juans in 3 hours. We plan on taking the boat to Bellingham again next summer for 30-60 days, special deal with the dealer......LOL
You will hear about all the rain we get here. There are days of rain, but when you have 60-90 days throughout the summer at 75-90 temperatures, with no rain it doesn't get any better. The summer and fall periods have been getting dryer the last 5 years. Don't tell anyone else, we try to keep the nice weather up here a secret.....LOL
If you make the move north to Seattle I look forward to seeing you on the water.
re morring bouys - I am told that here in Gig Harbor (on the Pierce County side) you can drop your own bouy for your permanent/semi permanent use. Theres at least a couple dozen boats on permanent bouys.
re books for the sound - the 'A foot and afloat' versions for San Juans and the other one for the South Sound are also helpful.
We live in Anacortes and keep our C34 in Skyline marina, 70 miles north of Seattle and just a 45 minute jump to the San Juan Islands from the time I step on to the boat. Drive time from Seattle to Anacortes is about 1-1/2 hours depending on traffic and where you live in Seattle.
All the moorages in Skyline marina are privately owned condo slips. That said, I have never had trouble finding a space here when we wanted to come for the summer when our boat was moored in Seattle. There always seems to be a few open slips that an Owner wishes to rent. Prices for a C34 size range from $250 to $300 depending on slip size. There are generally slips for sale again ranging in price depending on slip size. The best way to get moorage here is to contact the dockmasters directly for each of the condo associations. They always know what is available for sale or rent. If interested I can send you names and telephone numbers.
Jack
Not too much to add - You're getting good info. We live in Edmonds, just north of Seattle, and keep Gorbash at Anacortes Marina in Anacortes, WA. We pay about $310 for 38 foot slip and electricity. For the past three years we've been taking 6 to 10 weeks and heading up to the area around the north end of Vancouver Island. You can literally spend a lifetime cruising this area with many choices of type of water, weather, etc.
Deep water anchoring is one of the skills you learn here, especially in the Desolation Sound area. In 1792-96, Captain Vancouver was frustrated with his occasional inability to find the bottom let alone anchor in it. Stern tying, where the anchor is in 40 to 80 feet of water and a stern line is tied to a tree or rock on shore, solves the problem and also allows more boats to moor in a given area. That said, there are an incredible number of bays and inlets to choose from - see the references in the other posts.
You can get all the help and advice you need for this area here on the C34 forum.
We have been following this thread with disbelief and envy...triple digit depths, uncrowded anchorages, self-placed mooring balls, no a/c, no hurricanes...incredible! We have just spent the last years in the Florida Keys and are now in Tampa Bay, and while the waters are warm and the skys clear, they are thin, crowded, and controlled. The NorthWest sounds wonderful. So many places to sail and so little time. Just some ramblings.
The only downside to boating in this area is the temperature of the water, which is about 55-58 degrees year around in the San Juan Islands. Bring a wetsuit to swim! It does get warmer as you go north to the Desolation Sound area as has been noted, sometimes around 70 degrees. This is a small price to pay for the beauty of the area and the number of places to go. No A/C here, but sometimes heat!
Jack
Well, and the fact that the first really serious rains are starting tonight and will end sometime around April....The grass IS always greener. That said, if you can adjust to cool, gray, and rainy for late fall, winter, and spring - mid summer through mid fall are unmatched anywhere.
Something not mentioned in the discussion so far is the unique history of the area to the north in Canada. Unlike the rest of the country, history "just recently happened" there in the past 200 years from a European perspective but there is eveidence everywhere of the 12000 or so years of native life. Almost every bay from Desolation Sound north through the Broughtons has a large white midden, which is a multi-thousand year collection of clam and oyster shells where villages used to be. Quite a few villages were only abandoned in the 1940s and 50's so there are still totems and remains of longhouses to be seen. Many local books have been written about native life, and the very independent lives of the loggers and fisherman who populated this wilderness. We've spent many weeks exploring these areas, and in some case talking to those who still remember that lifestyle and the characters that lived it.
Here's a link to a tour company that gives some background but also a great list of books about the area. See especially the books by Billy Proctor. He's retired now and lives in Echo Bay in the Broughtons.
Finally, I've read that the human population between Desolation Sound and Ketchikan is the lowest its been in thousands of years. Disease killed off most of the native population and now most of the resident loggers and commercial fishermen are gone as well. There are very few places you can truly be in wilderness any more but only 3 or 4 days (at C34 speed), north of Desolation Sound where most people turn around, you're there.
Here's the link mentioned in the previous post:
http://www.villageisland.com/about_broughton.html
This will probably not be a very popular response but it was still our experience. In 1994 we moved from So. Calif. to Redmond, WA. and had our 87 Cat. 30 transported to WA. We initially kept our
boat at the Carillon marina on Lake Washington. After having to contend with a spider infestation, you heard it right, we moved the boat to a marina on the sound.
In a nutshell, we did not like the sailing conditions in western Washington. We found that when it was sunny and warm there was seldom any wind. When it was windy, it was too cold for
us fair weather sailors. There was also the matter of hidden sand bars which we were told about and personally experienced with our fin keel.
We were more than happy to sell our boat after a couple of years.
After 8 years in the NW, we moved back to the LA area, recently purchased an 04 Cat. 34 and are perfectly content to limit our sailing to Santa Monica Bay and Catalina.
Jay
Jay,
You're making this too easy...
The spiders are a trick we use to send folks back to socal. If that doesn't work, we pull out the old sand bar trick.
Seriously, you're right about the inverse relationship between good weather and wind if you define good weather as warm and sunny.
As a Seattle native in good standing, it's my duty to confirm the constant rain, cold temps, and squirrely wind to try to keep from being overun by growth. Thanks for the help.
I concur. After the weather we've had this week, I expect there's quite a waiting list for moving vans heading southbound. :D
Craig
x3
Skipperjay,
No need to qualify your reponse. Different strokes for different folks. Most of us that prefer sailing up here are in it for the scenery and the variety, not the warm weather winds. I have no problem sailing at 2 knots on an 80 degree July day with my feet up and a beverage in hand. :D Also, I enjoy sailing 7 knots on a blustery, cold, and wet October day.