Alternator Charge Distribution and Isolation

[Steve W10]

Hi all.

Anybody every used or had exposure to the ProMariner ProIsoCharge Advanced Digital Charge Distribution and Battery Isolation System?

It digitally controls power distribution of a boat’s engine alternator.

After reading and researching everything I could get my hands on, someone just told me about this relatively new device.  Here are a few descriptions…

http://www.greatlakesscuttlebutt.com/index.php?src=news&refno=269&category=Press+Room&prid=269

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|6421&id=1512226
Sorry I can't get this link to work properly; copying and pasting the entire line into the browser seems to work.

http://www.bymnews.com/news/newsDetails.php?id=75299

Without getting into a big discussion of the best way to set up a complete electrical system, this device would suit my needs perfectly.  It will direct alternator charging to what I consider my highest priority, the start battery and any extra electrons, especially once the start battery is topped up will all go to replenishing the house batteries.  This in conjunction with my Xantrex 3012 might just be the ticket.

If anyone has used one, I’d appreciate any feedback.  If no one has, perhaps I’ll have a review for you in a few months.

Thanks.

[mainesail]

The reason you can't find much information is because it is not really a Pro-Mariner product and they just recently licensed it. That is a European product made by a company called Sterling Power Products. You can buy the same product from Sterling USA, located here in Maine, for less money. Also the new Pro-Mariner high end chargers are made by Sterling.

http://sterling-power-usa.com/index.aspx

You can call and talk to Mark Grasser 207-226-3500 he is a smart guy, helped found Pro-Mariner, and now runs Sterling USA. Their new battery chargers are VERY nice!

I am not a big fan of those units and really see no need for all the built in "features" you're paying for. For that kind of money the Echo Charger is a great product. The Europeans are funny about wanting to charge the start battery first simply because Charles Sterling convinced them this was necessary, it is not. A $70.00 Blue Seas ACR will work just fine and save you money.

Your start battery, not even necessary for starting a C-34, will be at or near 99% SOC nearly always, even after starting the engine, so there is no need to charge it first and a standard VSR/ACR is more than adequate. If you like the concept, and it helps you sleep well, then by all means go for it. I know Mark quite well and have installed a bunch of his products but not the Pro-Split's. In fact I am wiring up another Blue Seas SI ACR today and I could have easily bought a Pro-Split for this customer, but I don't like to waste my customers money on features that will do him no good....

[Stu Jackson]

Steve,

Maine Sail and I have been discussing electrical systems for many, many years.  Independently, from different sides of the country, we have come to the same conclusions.  Most of them are linked in the "Electrical 101" topic I posted some time ago:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5977.0.html

The UK skippers, for some bizarre reason, think they need to top off their starting batteries FIRST, which makes little sense, when you understand how house banks always need more "juice" than reserve banks.  As I noted in the "Gotcha" topic about battery monitor algorithms (search for "Gotcha"), most people incorrectly start thinking about how to "work" their batteries when they are fully charged, instead of thinking about how to REcharge their banks after a night on the hook with the fridge running.

I believe the UK guys are simply incorrect in their thinking.  This has been discussed on this forum for years.  Just do a search on "1-2-B switch" and you'll understand.

The Sterling approach, which Maine Sail and I have discussed on the web, both locally and internationally, makes little sense, since the reserve bank (regardless of what you call it) is almost always full.

So, if you haven't already, do some reading about what we've both posted, which is in the 101 topic, and then make your decision.

Seems silly to spend more $$ for less.

Your boat, your choice.

Please let us know if you need more "input."

[mainesail]

Stu,

The ONLY reason the UK boaters believe this is because C. Sterling convinced them through his marketing that this is necessary. ACR's have "smart" chips Sterling's do too the Sterling just has more lines of code that he charges a lot for. There are also some very inexpensive to make "features" that all lead to a more expensive unit for the consumer but a similar build cost to an ACR or Yandina..

If you notice, Sterling's marketing is always comparing to a diode based isolator and what doesn't look good when compared to a diode isolator...

They are still well built units but I just don't see double the value for nearly double the price. The Blue Sea ACR is $79.00 and the ProMariner/Sterling about $150.00...

[Steve W10]

Interesting, thanks guys.  I really appreciate all the effort you go to helping us out, on every topic.

Value, not price, is always a driving factor and I think I get why you guys have gone this way.  It's certainly the best bang for the buck.

That written...

I've actually already purchased a Blue Sea 7610 ACR, but after learning about the ProSplits, they just seem so much more logical with multibank charging.  In my situation, using the XC3012 while alongside addresses each bank independently; adding a combiner to deal with charging while underway will have the adverse effect of merging banks while alongside, unless I disable the ACR as recommended by Blue Sea.   http://bluesea.com/viewresource/94

So, I either add these relays (another engineer told me that a single relay on the ground wire would also disable the ACR), or I might as well have purchased a less expensive, less effective shore charger.  Which is likely what you'd have recommended anyway  .

Here's a simplified schematic to show my concern.

[Stu Jackson]

Steve, we've had "this part of that discussion," too.  When I rigged my system in 1998, they hadn't invented the echo charger yet, and I have a combined inverter/charger Freedom 15, which only has ONE output for charging.  Thus, I was confronted with the challenge of having SINGLE SOURCE charging from BOTH my alternator AND my shorepower charger.  Combiners HAD been invented back then.  

Back then, the "solution" was to use a multiple bank shorepower charger, while using the alternator when away from the dock, complicated by the earlier discussion about how the 1-2-B switch was incorrectly wired through the C post of the switch.

So, I read the combiner manual, which clearly states that you can simply put a switch in the ground leg of the combiner to shut it off.  I did so and 14 years later I'm still a happy sailor.

I agree with MS - why buy something not needed?  I used a simple toggle switch on the ground wire.

Since you already have the ACR...

I also have a backup ACR that I purchased and have on board if the combiner ever gives up the ghost.  I also have a 1-2-B switch which will do just that, too.

[Tom Soko]

Steve,
The very simple solution for your setup is to take out the charging wire between the shore charger and the starting battery.  Use both the charger and the alternator to charge the house bank, and use the ACR to charge the starting battery.  This would make everything completely automatic, and you don't have to remember to change any switches.  Simple is definitely better.

[Ken Juul]

I put the line to the starting battery from the battery Charger on the output post of the ACR.  When charging on AC the ACR senses that the starting battery is at a high charge so it does not open.  When charging with the inverter it senses actual battery voltage and opens as needed.  Doesn't this accomplish the same thing as the relays and switches?

[mainesail]

Ken,

The ACR closes to "combine" and "opens" to un-combine. Byt feeding the charger directly to the ACR it is the same as feeding it to the bank. The ACR will close/make at 13.0 volts. You are far better off combining the outputs of your charger and feeding them directly to the house bank. Many chargers limit the output when "split" hecne one output you will see the full capacity of the charger being used. The ACR does not care whether the start battery is full or empty it combines on voltage increase (charging) and un-combines on a voltage fall (absence of charging).

[Ken Juul]

Thanks MS! That explaination makes perfect sense.