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Author Topic: Starting problems Cable/starter??  (Read 6830 times)

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kevMar

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Starting problems Cable/starter??
« on: January 17, 2010, 02:52:47 AM »

1988 34 Catilina Hull 615 went to sea trial engine did not start. How hard is it to remove the starter on a universal 25X  OR could the battery cables not be large enough so as the voltage does not drop when reaching the starter. The batteries are under the salon startboard seats. The cables are what Catalina puts in when built. I am very new to this site and dont know whhere to go for help.. From what i am told the owner did not use the boat to much.... had to push on the compression lever to get it started. i dont think it should be done that way..... Going back on Monday for sea trial and haul out... thank you for any help or suggestions... 
 
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Craig Illman

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Re: Starting problems Cable/starter??
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2010, 05:38:01 AM »

Wouldn't crank under compression? I'd check and clean the battery terminals (as one would on a car), then check/clean the connections at the engine, especially the negative way at the back. The batteries could be a bit old too and not delivering the cold cranking amps needed. The starter would be low on my list of potential problems.

Craig
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lucky

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Re: Starting problems Cable/starter??
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2010, 06:44:33 AM »

Kevmar
I had the same problem on my 86.switch had to be on all.Replaced all battery with welding leads,now starts on one battery.Check your battries may need to be replaced to.Check projects on installing starter battery.
Al
Lucky
86 cat hull#13
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DaveM

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Re: Starting problems Cable/starter??
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2010, 08:55:59 AM »

Has she had the wiring harness modification.  My O'Day with the same old harness acted the same way.  Replacing the harness did the trick.  It is written up in the Wiki.
Good Winds
DaveM
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Dave Mauney, O'Day 35, 1989, "DAMWEGAS" , Oriental, NC , M25XP

SeaFever

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Re: Starting problems Cable/starter??
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2010, 09:12:24 AM »

KevMar,

I agree with Craig and wouldn't suspect the starter just yet. Is your engine turning when you try to start it? If yes, your battery and starter are less of a suspect. Here are a few suggestions:

1. When you crank the engine, if it is not even turning, most likely you have either battery, cables or connectivity issues.

2. If it is turning, check that fuel is reaching the secondary fuel filter. If it is not, trace back towards the tank and find the culprit. If the fuel is reaching check and eliminate air bubbles by bleeding the fuel line first by slowly loosening the bolt on the secondary fuel filter till some fuel comes out, and then by loosening the bleed valve on the injection pump assembly. You can tighten the bleed valve back again for now. Ron suggests that you keep it 1/4 turn open all the time which helps keep air away from the fuel by kind of self bleeding (only for M25XP engines, not the M25).  You could also check the bleeding with the knurled knob first before you do the secondary nut job.

2. An easy way to eliminate the possibility that battery and battery cables are the issue is to use a spare battery. If you have a spare battery (even an automotive one) and jump-start cables take them with you. Connect the battery and see if it turns. The positive of the battery can be connected on the big bolt on the starter solenoid. The negative to the engine body. Make sure you are making good strong contact at both ends.

IMHO based on whether your engine is turning or not, Fuel and battery connection are the primary culprits and ones to eliminate first. Let us know what you find. Hopefully you don't find the above information redundant.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2010, 10:22:06 AM by Stu Jackson »
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Mahendra, Sea Fever, Pearson 10M, #43, Oakland, CA

Stu Jackson

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Re: Starting problems Cable/starter??
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2010, 09:50:31 AM »

Good advice, so far.

Fuel & electrical are possible culprits, but rarely, if ever, is the starter as a problem as you've described, so you can sleep easier tonight.

The battery cable sizing is fine, unless the PO changed something.

It's rarely the start button.

The most COMMON situation is the connection of the electrical system GROUND wire from the batteries to the engine.  In most cases, this connection is made right behind the alternator on the bell housing of the engine, below the exhaust manifold.  The old 1988 wiring may not have been tinned ire (mine aren't) and you may actually physically be able to simply pull it out of the lug with a little hand pressure.   Check that first, or do the separate battery trick.

One other possibility:  If there is NO NOISE whatsoever, and the starter doesn't even make a peep, then check the inline fuse in the wire from the start button to the starter solenoid.  It, too, is cleverly hidden behind and under the alternator.  While this was discussed in the Tech Notes a few times many years ago, it saved my bacon once on a cruise because I had that problem, but I remembered reading about it.  I relocated the fuse holder to a place more accessible.  See Reply #3: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4556.0.html

I discourage the use of the decompression lever, ever.  It's something the old C30 guys got used to.  We, here, tend to address the issue a bit more elegantly: we design and install good solid electrical systems so the engine starts, right away, all the time.

If you need help to learn the parts of the engine, go to www.marinedieseldirect.com, find the M25 (or XP) engine and print out the photos, they show both sides of the engine.

If you need help to find yourself around this website, please read the Quick Start Guide, a sticky on this board, here: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5260.0.html

You will soon learn two important things:

1.  When it's electrical, it's usually NOT the electrical system, batteries or other parts:  it's the CONNECTIONS

2.  The amount of use a boat gets is inversely proportional to the amount of reported operational problems!   :thumb:
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 11:12:22 PM by Stu Jackson »
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

DaveM

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Re: Starting problems Cable/starter??
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2010, 11:20:06 AM »

If all the above doesn't seem to solve it and you have to pull the starter I have found Neuse Start & Generator Service on Duffy St. in New Bern to be good, reputable and reasonable on testing and rebulding.  Just a thought.

Good Winds
DaveM
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 11:21:20 AM by DaveM »
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Dave Mauney, O'Day 35, 1989, "DAMWEGAS" , Oriental, NC , M25XP

Mike and Joanne Stimmler

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Re: Starting problems Cable/starter??
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2010, 12:20:40 PM »

Kev,
All good advice.
I would suggest that you start with the easy stuff first. If its not cranking at all check the fuse by the starter. Then the battery. Check electrolite levels and a respectable voltage. Has the charger been on long enough to charge the batteries. Next would be checking for clean and good connections as already mentioned.

Good luck,
Mike
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Mike and Joanne Stimmler
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Ron Hill

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Re: Starting problems Cable/starter??
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2010, 02:58:28 PM »

Kev : Just to reiterate - check:
1. Battery charge and battery connections
2. Starter solenoid fuse and fuse holder contacts & connections
3. Fuel

The solid advice given shows these respondents have learned well.   :thumb:
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 04:40:01 PM by Ron Hill »
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Ron, Apache #788

Stu Jackson

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Re: Starting problems Cable/starter??
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2010, 06:26:19 PM »

Here's another older post on your subject: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,2366.0/prev_next,next.html#new

Scroll up to the top.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 11:03:02 PM by Stu Jackson »
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

waterdog

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Re: Starting problems Cable/starter??
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2010, 07:31:36 AM »

I love it.  Kevmar has 10 replies on how to fix a boat he is only thinking about owning.   

The correct answer is:

"Something isn't right.    Owner should fix it or adjust the price down by $500 to a $1000 to make it worth your while to fix it."

But I bet he is ready to join the association if he does complete the transaction on this boat...
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Steve Dolling
Former 1988 #804, BlackDragon - Vancouver BC
Now 1999 Manta 40 cat

kevMar

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Re: Starting problems Cable/starter??
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2010, 05:55:11 PM »

hey waterdog     just so you can relax i did buy the boat
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Stu Jackson

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Re: Starting problems Cable/starter??
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2010, 10:10:33 PM »

 just so you can relax i did buy the boat

Congratulations.

Does it start? :D :D :D
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

kevMar

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Re: Starting problems Cable/starter??
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2010, 05:33:22 PM »

Had a starter battery installed under the aft cabin... starts like a brand new boat !!!!  thank you for all your help...
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