Traveler Upgrade - fasteners required?

[Michael Algase]

Folks,

I have an '86 boat, and have purchased the traveler upgrade.  I was just looking at it, and figured I probably need longer fasteners to hold it down, since this track is taller than the Nicro Fico track, and if I recall correctly, many of the fastener heads are counterbored a fair distance into the track.  I am an hour and a half away from the boat, and a reasonable stainless supplier is closer to here than there.  Can anyone tell me what length fasteners they used to change out to the upgraded traveler?   The track is 1.75" tall, so I would guess 2.50" fasteners for the ones to the embedded plate (they are all 1/4-20 hardware tapped into an embedded plate like the turning blocks, right?).  I can call Catalina for the thru-bolts, but an indication of length there would be helpful too.

Thanks in advance to the seemingly infinite sources of experience . . .

Michael

[Stu Jackson]

Michael, suggest you use the Tech Notes Index KNOWLEDGEBASE prepared by Jon Schneider.  Use Ctrl-F to search on traveler or the misspelled traveller with 2 l's.  The Nov 88 Tech Notes have a discussion.  While the original two bolts may go into plates in the deck, the required new nine inch bolts go all the way through into the cabin headliner below.  The athwartships location of the long bolts will determine how deep they penetrate into the cabin, depending on the hole you end up using in the traveler track.  Only YOU can figure that one out on your boat.

See also this from the Nov 97 Mainsheet Tech Notes:

Traveler Travails
Dear Ron,
I just want to convey some information that could save someone else from a
hazard and some expensive repairs. We were really moving along on a
broad reach with, as we later heard, winds increasing to 20 knots. We then performed a controlled gybe. As it turned out it wasn't controlled enough as the port side traveler mount pulled out from its mounting tower, twisting the starboard bronze backing plate completely out through the fiberglass. The
halyards that pass through the line organizers on the underside of the traveler were the only thing holding the whole assembly from flying into the air. We managed to lash down the boom to the cabin top winches and take down the main sail and regain control, but as you would say, "It really got our attention."
I called Catalina on Monday to ask them what to do. To my surprise Gerry
Douglas called me back that very evening.
He said that the early C-34s (ours is a 1987 #245) did not have bolts through  the towers and terminating on the inside cabin overhead. He said if we would install long bolts (approximately 9") with large washers, all would be secure. Catalina even has long bolts for sale just for this purpose. As it turned out, Catalina parts department would take two weeks before shipping and had a $25 minimum, so we had our repairer fabricate his own bolts. He also put three bolts on each side through to the inside which is probably overkill and definitely causes a problem on the port side when the head door is opened all the
way. I've since looked at newer boats and there is only one through-bolt on each side.
The moral of this story is: If you have an older boat, check your traveler bolts.
Also, I'm very happy we have a Catalina with such a responsive top management who is immediately concerned about even a 10 year old boat. –Dave Ewing, Cherette
#245

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I also recall another more recent Tech Notes article specifically about the Niicro / Garhauer upgrade, which you should also be able to find on the Knowledgebase.

[Michael Algase]

My current installation has the through bolts, but they were cut off and covered with acorn cap nuts to miminize protrusion once installed, and I am pretty sure they will not support the new traveler given the difference in section size between the two pieces.

I spoke with Kent at CY later today, and he gave me part number 13296 for a 1/4-20 X 9 inch long flat head SS screw.  They take a 3" FH screw and weld a piece of SS thread to it to make the part.

Can anyone tell me if 3/4 inch is the right length from the surface of the deck to the end of the screw?  Stu, do you recall how far into the deck the other fasteners go that are into the tapped plate embedded in the deck?  I thought I saw on another thread that you did this upgrade, and thought you might recall.

Again, thanks,
Michael

[Stu Jackson]

Michael, yes I did that mod, but we used the existing Garhauer track.  My records show that I used the same "1/4-20 X 9 inch long flat head SS screw" from Catalina.   I did not have to remove the track, since I was using the existing one, so I was able to leave the existing two original screws (tapped into the molded in plate, most likely) in place.  I just drilled the two new holes with a very long drill bit I picked up at Ace Hardware through another bolt hole in the existing track inboard of the existing two screws.

Understanding that you're not at your boat, if I was in your situation, for replacing the screws that go into the tapped plate, I would simply buy an assortment of screws of various lengths and a small range of widths and threads, so that when you do get to the boat you have a bunch to choose from.  Keep the receipt and return the ones you don't use.  Since each boat has been proven to be different over the years, I would recommend that as your approach.  Catalina could most likely tell you what the diameter and thread counts are for those two screws.  If not, there's only so much a range that's available.

For your through bolts (and I don't know how much thicker the new track is than the old one), either get the new ones and "refinish" the ends for yourself, or see if you can use the old ones.  For instance, I found I made a mistake when I put mine in, and one side was further inboard than the other because I wasn't that careful and I used two holes in the track from the top that were a different distance from the centerline (there were a bunch of holes to choose from  ).  So, inside, one sticks down further than the other because of the curve of the cabintop.  One has space for an acorn nut, the other doesn't.  The port-side one, by the head door, was further outboard, no room for the acorn, but the head door "just" gets by it, somewhat a different result than Dave Ewing's in the post earlier, above.  I put a flat washer, a locknut and the regular nut on that one, same on the starboard side over the galley, but with the acorn nut on last.  If I put an acorn nut on the port-side one, the head door would hit it.

Again, Michael, I recommend that you plan to go "armed" with MORE than you think you'll need, rather than trying to get exact dimensions or the least amount of pieces.  Sometimes it's worth it to recognize that "complete" prior planning may end up actually reducing your options.

PS -- added later: Another option is to relocate the existing long bolts further to the centerline of the track and boat so that the the increase in height of the track is made up for by the higher liner down below, and use the new long bolts where those used to be.  Don't know if that relocation will bring them further inboard and off the pedestal that the track is mounted on.  Then you may not have to deal with the tapped plates at all.

[windrunr]

I am in the process of completing the upgrade to a Garhauer traveler.

I just purchased eight new 3 inch 1/4"x20 and installed them to hold down the traveler. Could have used the existing screws, but decided I wanted to have new hardware. My C34 did not have the 9" bolt and placed an order with Catalina to get them. I could not find any other sources.

I am looking forward to completing the project to go sailing with the new traveler. This one moves with minimal effort. The old Nicro took the winch to move it with a load on it.